Manchester United Fans Must Take Some Blame
by CaughtOffside Team on April 5th, 2007
| 410 words |
Craig isn’t so sure the Rome police were the entire problem at the Stadio Olympico.
While the media are falling over themselves to condemn the Italian police for their behaviour in the Stadio Olimpico, the Manchester United supporters must also take some of the blame for the incidents last night. Firstly, the incidents appeared to blown out of proportion – it looked to me as though the police were simply trying to force the United fans away from the barriers, albeit using very heavy-handed tactics. The only United fans being hit violently by the riot police were those who were stupid enough to confront the Roma fans, and then who failed to retreat when the police tried to disperse them – hardly the ‘innocent fans’ the media have claimed.
Italian football fans are nuts, and I would fully support all Italian teams being thrown out of Europe for a few years following all the recent incidents – Anders Frisk being hit by a coin; Dida being hit by a flare; the death of the policeman and Wednesday night, to name but a few. If Feyenoord were thrown out of the UEFA Cup for failing to control their fans, then why not Roma? However, Celtic recently visited the San Siro to play AC Milan and there was not a single piece of trouble. 10,000 Scotland fans went to Bari to play Italy, and were warmly received, with not a hint of a problem. Roma had no problems when Valencia or Lyon visited – both clubs with a support as large as United. Some people have claimed that English fans have never been forgiven for Heysel, which may be true, but Liverpool visited Juventus 2 years ago and there were no problems surrounding that game.
It is also worth remembering that there was crowd trouble at Manchester United’s last European away game, when they played Lille, which although not serious, will have been taken into account by UEFA. Obviously the main aggressors appeared to be firstly the Italian fans, then the riot police, but United fans did themselves no favours by getting involved. I believe UEFA will take action – probably a stadium ban for Roma and a hefty fine for United for failing to control their fans. Hopefully there will be no repeat of these incidents at Old Trafford on Tuesday, otherwise both teams will face being unceremoniously dumped out of Europe.
Bobo - April 5th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Dude its true with these English fans on Italian ground,but whats also true is that only Roma & Lazio has Ultras supporter who would gladly injure/kill for the club they love…
By the way Juventus Delle Alpi are most of the time empty,the fans probably don’t give a shiite bout a club runned by the mafia hence Serie B…
61 and 49 - April 5th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1mnkk_crowd-fights
Take a look at that. The man with the nightstick certainly looks like he’s doing an excellent job dealing with that dangerous hooligan… No wait! That’s a man who’s semi-conscious from being beat about the head. Easy mistake to make.
Fred - April 5th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
I don´t think Any fans of united is to blame in this ! you don´t deserve to get beaten for sitting quiet!
As a Liverpool Fan my self for 31 years. I Don´t like what the police or Roma fans did in Rome!
Hope Uefa hits Roma hard on this one !
Jorge - April 5th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
I have seen this before on the same stadium when I lived in Italy for a couple of years.
In 1997 when England played Italy, the italian fans began throwing all types of stuff at the english fans. As soon as some english responded the police charged and started beating english fans indiscrimately just like yesterday.
Although they had done nothing to justify it english fans were insulted by all the press as thugs and drunks. As in the current case, the italian government and press never accused the police of having done anything wrong, and without any type of investigation or a second thought they blamed the english fans which in the days after the game were portrayed has a bunch of drunk hooligans… Just like today.
As the reactions are showing there is are very strong nationalistic and regionalistic feelings in Italy mix this with the appropriate amounts of xenophobia and anti-english prejudice and this is what you get.
The problem will never be solved from within, as it is clear from the past and current responses to these situations, the italian media and politicians are unable to any level of self-criticism and never take any blame.
The english clubs, fans and government should take a hard stand on this issue as I doubt UEFA will ever do anything without strong outside pressure.
Finally, the strategy of charging
Jorge - April 5th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
fans indiscriminately has proven to be ineffective in terms of crowd control.
The Man U supporters were plain disgusting - April 6th, 2007 at 6:23 am
Right. I watched the match live and what I saw was after the 1st goal was scored by Taddei of Roma, the Roma fans got up and cheered, while the Man U fans started throwing stuff at them immediately.
THAT was what sparked the conflict in the 1st place.
Look, if u really think ur team can play well, then why resort to this sort of behaviour? This isn’t called support, it’s called being obsessed. It’s disgusting behaviour and i think the riot police did a good job. Didn’t the get the situation under control after that? It was a wonderful job.
Why can’t people just let the players do the talking on the pitch, rather than engage in disgusting behaviour in the stands? Ur just giving people more trouble and leaving an unsightly taint on the entire match.
Roma played well and Man U played horribly that night, save a few good displays by Rooney and Ronaldo. Period. That’s y Roma won, and they deserved the win. It was a good game, so why are people still being so sore about it?
Jorge - April 6th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
In the first place the TV and the images available on Youtube show obkects flying from both sides of the court, and groups of people from both sides rushing the separating barrier, so I can easily conclude from your comments that you are probably another one-sided italian bigot.
It is clear the dual treatment given to fans, in one side the police bashing away at fans in the other side Stewards asking fans to get away from the separating barrier.
In the second place, if only Man U fans misbehaved they should be takem out of the stands and punished after a clear evaluation of their actions and after they had the opportunity to defend themselves. The police is not there to judge and execute, which was what they did.
Moreover, as you can see in countries like Greece and Italy, police and the policing strategy seem to be another part of the problem and not part of the solution as it should.
Finally, this has nothing to do with the score. I am not a Man. U. fan. I am not even english. this is about violent and xonophobic behavior(s).
The Man U supporters were plain disgusting - April 6th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Uh-huh. Both sides threw objects at each other DURING the conflict. Right. But who started it? From the way ur rushing to their defence like that based on Youtube videos, i suppose ur not a one-sided bigot then? Definitely both sides have to take the blame but ultimately it’s abt who started the conflict and why. And if they were stupid enough to do it in a country that’s not even their own, well, what would u have the Italian police do?
Another point regarding the police not being there to judge and execute. Right. So they should have given the fans 30 minutes to fight while contemplating if they should go for the Man U fans or the Roma fans 1st huh? Cm’on, a policeman got killed in the stands not long ago, if YOU were among the Italian police would u hesitate to act towards the violence? As i’ve said it’s abt where the violence came from. If the Utd supporters started it of course the police have to get there 1st!
And i wonder, if police shouldn’t judge and execute in times of unrest like this, then what would u have the police academy teach them? Pls, this is not a computer game where u’ve all the time in the world to strategise.
Koparoma - April 6th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
[quote comment=”36482″]Right. I watched the match live and what I saw was after the 1st goal was scored by Taddei of Roma, the Roma fans got up and cheered, while the Man U fans started throwing stuff at them immediately.
THAT was what sparked the conflict in the 1st place.
/quote]
I was at the ground looking straight at the ManU fans. This is correct.
Remember the Roma Curva Nord fans were fenced in by a perspex barrier - and would have had to climb it to get closer to the ManU fans. The ManU fans were controlled only by a line of stewards creating a 20 metre buffer zone between them and that perspex barrier.
The police were stationed near the perspex barrier to control any Italian fans who tried to jump over.
Most of the missiles were plastic bottles (the only sort sold in the stadium) - however later some of the ManU fans appeared to break their seats and throw those at the police.
Then a small proportion of the ManU fans broke through the stewards line and charged to the perspex barrier which contained the Roma fans. The police ordered them back behind the stewards - some returned to their seats - but many of them wanted to argue; yell at the Roma fans on the other side of the barrier, and throw things. The police waited for instructions and then started
a baton charge to drive back the ManU fans.
The reason that they didn’t baton charge any of the Roma fans - was simple. They were all still in their allotted and controlled area.
The only ManU fans that were hit were those who had left their seats and charged towards the Roma fans across the No-Go buffer zone - and then refused to return. No ManU fan sitting quietly in his seat was attacked - only the aggressive trouble-makers.
Now there may have been communication issues… The local authorities are not used to dealing with brawling drunks (it is not an Italian charcteristic). The Italian police could probably have held back longer (but then they were caught in the middle of two potentially violent groups - with missiles/seats raining down on them).
Every week in Italy this same crowd control strategy is how the fans are controlled - by creating a strict No-Go buffer zone between them and enforcing that zone. The police do not go in amongst the supporter groups (it is seen as too dangerous). They rigorously enforce these buffer zones. Someone should have warned the visiting fans about that.
Oh and it is also normal for all visiting fans to remain in the stadium until the crowd has dispersed. This is usually 45 mins - but obviously the ManU fans reputation made the authorities more cautious.
freddy gunnner - April 6th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
Don’t forget these Roma fans are the same one’s that attacked middlesbrough supporters last year, and it doesn’t make sense that there weren’t police on the Roma side of the barrier, except for the fact that they would allow there fans to behave unruly while they’re beating he Manu fans. Roma should be punished
Jorge - April 6th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
“Every week in Italy this same crowd control strategy is how the fans are controlled”
Are controlled? They are not even contained. There are fights among italian fans every single weekend. So if you act on prejudgements you should post the riot police on the italian side, and “control” the italians as you do every weekend in Italy while controlling the Man. U. fans as it is done every weekend in England.
Also the italians fans did not get out of their “alloted space” because they bounced against the plexiglass barrier, while the “alloted space” for the Man U fans was a fluctuating line before the plexiglass.
http://atthebackofthehill.blogspot.com/ - April 6th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
English and European soccer fan behaviour is repulsive, and given the deserved reputation English fans have for being brutish beer-sodden thugs, I am surprised out the outrage being generated by Italian attempts to control the mob.
Visitors who get stinko, rampage through town, and then proceed to riot and destroy their section of the stadium - do they really expect to be treated as humans? Should they be treated as humans?
Soccer fans are notorious for misbehaviour and violence. They should be glad that so many of them were allowed to (and able to) return to England.
———-
Please note: This applies not just to Manchester United fans (or other Brits) - the same goes for those inbred gobs from Feijenoord who misbehaved in France a while back. Generally speaking, I despise the French, but I would have cheered them for using live ammo if they had shot a few. There is little difference between a whacked-out soccer fan and a rabid dog.
[FC Utrecht fans, remarkably, make even rabid dogs look like a bunch of tea-drinking pinky-lifting bunnywabbits.]
Though I like the game, I am eternally grateful that neither the game nor the behaviour of its fans are ever likely to become common in the US.
http://atthebackofthehill.blogspot.com/ - April 6th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
[quote comment=”36535″]English and European soccer fan behaviour is repulsive, and given the deserved reputation English fans have for being brutish beer-sodden thugs, I am surprised at the outrage being generated by Italian attempts to control the mob.
Visitors who get stinko, rampage through town, and then proceed to riot and destroy their section of the stadium - do they really expect to be treated as humans? Should they be treated as humans?
Soccer fans are notorious for misbehaviour and violence. They should be glad that so many of them were allowed to (and able to) return to England.
———-
Please note: This applies not just to Manchester United fans (or other Brits) - the same goes for those inbred gobs from Feijenoord who misbehaved in France a while back. Generally speaking, I despise the French, but I would have cheered them for using live ammo if they had shot a few. There is little difference between a whacked-out soccer fan and a rabid dog.
[FC Utrecht fans, remarkably, make even rabid dogs look like a bunch of tea-drinking pinky-lifting bunnywabbits.]
Though I like the game, I am eternally grateful that neither the game nor the behaviour of its fans are ever likely to become common in the US.[/quote]
ChelseaBoy - April 8th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
The reason when English clubs go places like italy theres trouble is not ‘cos of heysel.
It’s because every nation views Englands hooligans as THE BEST and clubs from italy, france, belgium…whatever, try to attack ‘the best’ to gain notoriety.