Who is To Blame for Liverpool’s Incredibly Average Squad?

Retryboy - October 21st, 2009 at 1:20 pm

Rafa knew he had to sell before he bought have said a million times people who complain about lack of funds don’t take into account the 10 or so players in our first team squad that never get near to the first team picking up at least 40k a week each totalling 25 million a year there is a healthy transfer fund just in their wages let alone transfer fees any decent manager would have done some wheeling and dealing we had offers from hertha berlin for voronin of between 5 and 8 million rafa wanted to keep him we had offers from italy for dossena those 2 players could have given us at least 10 million for a striker we didn’t need the greek ayala was doing fine another 2 million rafa thought that voronin was good enough thats why he loaned out our second best striker nemeth. Babel has all the attributes for the lone striker role but has never been given a shot. Only position he has been put in is left side midfield wake up rafa he is right footed for a start doesn’t take a genius basically if we had nemeth back, tried babel up front we might save ourselves millions but rafa can’t complain about lack of funds cos he could have sold in the summer.

Aquilani4goals - October 21st, 2009 at 1:30 pm

I am no longer supporting rafa,becos he has proving not to make the best use of resources givin to him,look at arsene wenger he can still produce result with the bunch of youngster that he has…stop blamin the owners of the club…rafa should be able to make stars out of average players do you agree with me…..

Aquilani4goals - October 21st, 2009 at 1:37 pm

rafa is to blame his too stuborn

Aquilani4goals - October 21st, 2009 at 1:42 pm

what are we going to do about this issue ,we can’t affort to be loosin match at this early start of the season

Aquilani4goals - October 21st, 2009 at 1:44 pm

lets face fact rafa should leave

Mark G. - October 21st, 2009 at 1:51 pm

Retryboy: I know you are upset, but you are becoming delusional, you suggest that we had offers for Voronin for between 5-8M, in reality Hertha offered to take him on loan, Dossena’ deal was scuttled, when he would not accept lower wages in Italy, you are so keen to badmouth RAFA that you are inventing things. Grow up, stick to the facts, or change your nick to RETARDBOY. We need cool minds not some hysterical whinings of a small boy!

Aquilani4goals - October 21st, 2009 at 2:08 pm

Another defeat in the Champions League last night at home to Lyon leaves Liverpool’s season in tatters.

The Merseyside club currently sit eight in the Premier League, having already lost four games and it’s fair to say, they face a massive battle to qualify for the next stage of the Champions League.

So, who should Liverpool fans be blaming. I personally feel it’s too easy to point the finger at the American owners and questions should be asked of manager Rafael Benitez. Looking at it from the outside, I get the impression that Benitez has taken Liverpool as far as he can and I think it’s time for him to go.

Football Corner would like you to sum up Benitez in three words. Whenever we do this feature, we always seem to get a very good response, so I would love if we could do that once again. Tell me your three words by leaving a comment below.

My three words : Pack your bags.

Aquilani4goals - October 21st, 2009 at 2:17 pm

While it should be cause for worry for Rafael Benitez that he seems to be losing the affections of Liverpool supporters, surely of more concern to the Spaniard must be the rumour that he is losing his power over the playing staff. The two are related, but the belief of the fans will not return unless Rafa can reassert control over his players.

A fourth defeat in a row has put the Spaniard’s tenure seriously at risk. A fifth on Sunday against champions Manchester United could land the final, critical blow. It is not hard to imagine the wry smiles of the club’s American owners at this turn of events. Benitez’s relationship with George Gillett and Tom Hicks has hardly ever been better than strained – but the affection with which Koppites held the Spaniard often seemed to be the main barrier to the Americans showing him the door. Oh, that and the fact that sacking Benitez would put yet another hole in the club’s precarious finances. But now that the tide seems to be turning amongst many fans, it is not inconceivable that Rafa might walk – earning no compensation, much to the delight of the warring owners.

While Benitez certainly seems to have lost his way, quality alternatives are not exactly plentiful. Reds fans may be better served counting slowly to ten and then contemplating the situation very carefully. There are three critical questions they should consider before making their minds up.

Firstly, as hinted at above – who should replace Benitez? And even if certain figures in the game come to mind, could Liverpool actually go out and get them?

Secondly, if the club did identify a quality target – say Jose Mourinho for the sake of argument – would any such candidate really want to work under the conditions that have plagued Benitez’s tenure over the last few seasons? One owner or chairman can be bad enough, so two, hardly on speaking terms and with seemingly differing visions of the club and its future, is hardly an attractive prospect for top bracket managers. Given Mourinho’s experiences with the meddling Roman Abramovich, would he seriously contemplate the Liverpool job under the current ownership structure and financial restrictions? The same applies to any of the candidates Liverpool fans might hope to see at the helm.

The third question focuses on Benitez himself. Has he earned the right to turn things around? The manner of defeat in at least three of the four recent losses (Chelsea being the exception) have shown up the serious deficiencies in Liverpool’s squad. Of equal concern must be the fact that after the abject display in Florence and Benitez’s assurances that such a display would not be seen again, Liverpool have performed more tamely and insipidly against Lyon and Sunderland than at any time under his management.

The fact that displays have not improved appreciably and consistently may well suggest that Benitez is no longer able to influence or inspire his players. Put simply, the fear must be that he has lost the dressing room.

That said, Liverpool fans should not forget that Benitez’s body of work at the club and the fact that he steered the club to its first proper title challenge in many years just last season. He has also made Liverpool one of the most feared sides in European competition during his tenure. Perspective is thus required. Sunday, already a key game, has just become a critical one. But a win for Liverpool, not beyond the realms of possibility, will put Liverpool only four points behind the champions and would go some way to restoring the Spaniard’s reputation in the dressing room and the stands.

So, for all the annoyance and frustration they are currently experiencing, Liverpool fans must be careful what they wish for. Do they really want to hear the words ‘Sammy Lee – caretaker manager’ some day next week in the knowledge that Gillett and Hicks are heading up the search for a full time replacement for Rafael Benitez?

Aquilani4goals - October 21st, 2009 at 2:20 pm

Liverpool fans turning against BenitezAfter a 4th consecutive loss in all competitions, Liverpool is in a position where they’re likely to miss out on qualification for the KO stage of the CL for the 1st time in 6 years. Their hopes of winning the Premiership title for the first time since EPL was introduced are also fading fast, and the fans are growing restless.

Many Liverpool fans now believe it’s time for Benitez to go, and are voicing their thoughts out everywhere online, citing players discontent with Rafa’s “human side” as a coach.

Many Anfield stars such as Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher and Fernando Torres have previously criticized the Spaniard in their respective autobiographies, accusing him of being “cold” and not showing a proper “personal touch” to his squad members.

For example, Torres recalls when he was being congratulated by everyone in the team on the birth of his daughter, but all Benitez had to say was: “I was really pleased with the way you attacked the near post for the corners.”

Benitez is refusing such accusations and has come out to defend himself.

“If you repeat a lie a lot of times, it becomes the truth,” he said.

“I have a lot of conversations with my players, both as individuals and in a group.

“I have conversations with them about the positives and negatives of football and we analyze all of it. Each of them has a DVD [on their performances]. Gerrard wanted to talk about the negatives of his play but I said, ‘No: let’s concentrate on the positives’.

“If they do well, I say well done. I say this 100 times, especially if we win. I was surprised with Fernando – it’s true what I said about the goal against Chelsea, but in the dressing room it is a different situation. You cannot be close friends because you have to make big decisions about their future.”

Obviously Benitez admits he deliberately distances himself from the players. What’s wrong with a mere “congratulations”? Maybe that is the root of Liverpool’s current crises… the lack of proper communication on the human level!

Jed - October 21st, 2009 at 3:32 pm

hahahaha….well, well well….i’m laughin at all of ya’s…this is exactly what i said would happen and i gave reasons for my opinions and i was in turn, made the biggest cunt on here…looks like im the best judge on here….go back and read my posts for the last 4 months and i told you all that you would have no chance at anything this year…if you werent all so one eyed you would have seen it for yourself…..2 buys in the off-season, both defenders, and now you have to start a big champions league match with david ngog….what a small pathetic club you have turned into…get rid of rafa, and you might be able to build towards a PL title in the next 10 years

Retryboy - October 21st, 2009 at 3:37 pm

Mark g hertha berlin wanted him permanently there is even an article on it here that quotes 6 million the papers at the time were quoting 5 to 8 million seeing as tho your lack of knowledge is that great rafa refused it only then did they talk about a loan with rafa stating we didn’t need another striker because voronin was like a new signing. All this is common knowledge but obv you slept through that. As well as sleeping through rafa spending 125 million on top of all the sales, picking the teams, building the squad, choosing formations and tactics, bringing in all the coaching staff, having complete control of everything but nothing is his fault what have you spouted so far everything will be ok we’ll win every game win the league funny you spouted the same shit after the Sunderland defeat and you have the fucking cheek to come on here calling me delusional blaming everything apart from saint rafa i am far from a little kid and my footballing knowledge far outways yours you cheeky little cunt

saif - October 21st, 2009 at 3:41 pm

yeah rafa hasn’t has totle controll over signings untill this year and the one player who has been fit and playing in the first team has been a sick plauer how do you lot know who rafa wanted and rafa diddn’t get coz of parry and aquilani’s coming back so all we have to do is beat utd who have been plaged with injurys them selves 5 of there players are out of the moscow game and every one’s blasting liverpool i garentee that chelsea will miss there players in the african cup of nations aquilani will make a massive impact and liverpool will beat the top sides at least once so look at the positives not the negatives in rafa we trust

YNWA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ryan Babel - October 21st, 2009 at 3:42 pm

Surely we would of been better off with bellamy or keane on the bench than voronin. yh i kinda think rafa and the owners are both to blame. rafas too stuborn.
cause what to we have that are good enough
ST= Torres
RM=kuyt,benayoun
LM=Riera
CM=Gerrard,Mascherano,Aquilani
RB=Johnson
LB=aurelio,insua
CB=Agger, Skrtel,carragher
We need to sell Lucas babel (not the right attitude) degen voronin
we then need 2 strikers eg pandev and adriano if we dont have much money,LM(eg matias fernandez)RM (eg Lavezzi) RB(eg Rafinha)
then wed have:
ST= Torres,Pandev,Adriano
RM=kuyt,benayoun,Lavezzi
LM=Riera,Matias Fernandez
CM=Gerrard,Mascherano,Aquilani Defour/Hamsik
RB=Johnson, Rafinha
LB=aurelio,insua
CB=Agger, Skrtel,carragher

Retryboy - October 21st, 2009 at 3:44 pm

Notice not one comment off jed on chelsea’s loss to villa not a bed of roses on the bridge either is it your band of pensioners relying on drogba for everything. People call us a 2 man team you are a one man team and he is 31. Concentrate on your own problems least we know we have problems.

saif - October 21st, 2009 at 3:44 pm

well saud retryboy

Ryan Babel - October 21st, 2009 at 3:46 pm

maybe not fernandez but someone like him mata if we had money.

saif - October 21st, 2009 at 3:49 pm

liverpool’s chance of going in to the champions league next year depends on gillet selling up wow is that depresing on the other hand we could sell all of the fringe but then were would that leave us and why not get some players on free

Ryan Babel - October 21st, 2009 at 3:59 pm

i swear tottenham have more money available, and a better sqaud if they had gerrard and torres theyd be a top 4 not us.

Ryan Babel - October 21st, 2009 at 4:02 pm

although if they where without lennon defoe modric corluka theyd have lost to lyon easily

saif - October 21st, 2009 at 4:15 pm

Four defeats on the bounce and injuries to Torres, Gerrard, Johnson and Riera look to wreck our season completely. However it is the absence of another player that is most felt.

No, not Xabi Alonso, but rather Alberto Aquilani, our £20 million player who has still not kicked a ball at Anfield. What’s most worrying though is that by the time he does finally make his first team debut, we could be out of the League, Champions League and Carling Cup.

I questioned earlier in the season why Benitez had chosen to bring in Aquilani, who we all knew wouldn’t be fit for several months, as opposed to those that Real Madrid were desperate to fob off to us. Striker Alvaro Negredo last week grabbed a brace for Spain on his international debut whilst Wesley Sneijder and Rafael Van der Vaart have helped Holland to a perfect qualification campaign.

Sneijder and Negredo left for a combined €30 million and Real were even looking to offload Van der Vaart on loan. Yet Benitez preferred to go for broke on the single signing of Aquilani as a replacement for Alonso and not to bother looking for someone to play second fiddle to Torres.

Now I’m no tactical genius and certainly not able to revive a club that was 3-0 down to an incredible Champions league victory, but it was pretty obvious that if Torres got injured Andriy Voronin and David Ngog were not going to fill his shoes.

And the same goes for Xabi Alonso. From Lucas’ previous performances we knew that he couldn’t replace the Spanish international and one of the best midfielders in the world. Now this is not to say that Lucas and Ngog aren’t good players but they aren’t good enough yet for a team challenging for the League.

If I were a Hull, Stoke or Bolton supporter, Lucas’ performances would be more than adequate. But I’m not and he’s playing for one of the most demanding clubs in the world and a club in which teams will raise their game when they face us.

We can’t afford to carry passengers when we’re so close to the league title and though Lucas isn’t terrible he isn’t great. He doesn’t score, he doesn’t create much, he doesn’t put many tackles in and cannot pass a ball like Alonso, so why did Benitez think we would be ok with him in centre midfield for several months?

Benitez now has huge pressure on him that Aquilani immediately comes into the team and performs exceptionally. He will be measured against Alonso but unlike Alonso he’s going to be thrust into shark-infested waters and expected to perform. Aquilani has had no pre-season, he has never played in the league before and has not played with his team mates in a competitive match before. It often takes players time to adapt and in some cases they aren’t half as good in one league as they were in another. Dossena is a prime example.

There’s no guarantee that Sneijder or Van der Vaart would have been successful but I expect if they came into the team at the start of the season and took a bit of time to adapt the fans would have awarded them a degree of leeway. Benitez signing a player that cannot play has foregone that leeway and placed a huge amount of pressure on Aquilani.

The league is near enough gone but if we lose any more then it’s not the league we’ll be in danger of losing sight of but a Champions League position. The Italian will have to land on his feet and cannot afford to have average games. We have a really difficult run of 11 games, facing United, Arsenal, City, Everton and the usual troubling trip to Craven Cottage. We also have the three ‘must win’ games in the Champions League and the Carling Cup visit to Arsenal. There is absolutely no room for error now and I hope for Benitez’s sake that Aquilani is a success, because if not I don’t believe the owners will give him a chance next season.

Rock of Anfield - October 21st, 2009 at 4:35 pm

rafa out , kenny in

...samlfc.... - October 21st, 2009 at 4:37 pm

saif – October 21st, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Good post There! however when you said ” The Italian will have to land on his feet and cannot afford to have average games.” If you talking about Rafa he is Spanish not Italian if you weren’t then i’m sorry if i amde a mistake

saif - October 21st, 2009 at 4:39 pm

no i ment aquilani he needs to gel with the team and find match fitness quickly

isaac hunt - October 21st, 2009 at 4:44 pm

please dont take RETRYBOY serious people, he wants fukin SAM ALLARYDICE to replace rafa!!!!!

it is a FACT that when rafa is given a substancial amount of money he always gets the right players for LFC and develops them into world class players :

torres=20 million – now the best striker in the world. worth 50 million.

alonso=14 million – now one of the best midfielders in the world. worth 32 mill.

mascherano=20 million – now one of the best Defensive midfielders. worth 35 million

johnson=17 million – overpriced at the time but he has been by far our best player this season.

yet when he only has 1-10 million available he is very much hit and miss.

good buys= benyaoun,kuyt,reina,agger (probably more)

bad buys = lucas,babel,dossena and loads more.

it is obvios to see that if he was given the money he wanted e.g 20 mill for gareth barry then we wouldnt be in this position and would have a world class team. WE NEED NEW INVESTORS AND QIUCK!

Hoogleboogybugleboy - October 21st, 2009 at 4:46 pm

Some people are calling for Rafa to be sacked which I can understand to a degree but would it be the best move? I tend to think not, mainly because any new manager that comes in is going to want/need to buy new players which is of course a problem straight away. Also, what existing players might want to leave if Benitez goes. It’s a tough one to call. Gareth Southgate’s available though I believe.

...samlfc.... - October 21st, 2009 at 4:46 pm

Ok saif sorry for the mistake!
Liverpools squad is what you might find in teams like Everton or West ham where its ok but not fantastic but even then West hams squad is proberly better its only cuz of Torres Reina and Gerrard we actually play well.

Mark G. - October 21st, 2009 at 4:46 pm

Aquilani4goals: Beware what you wish for, or you may end up with Souness. At least your opinions are measured. That is a good start. I believe that in spite of all the losses and despair among the supporters nowadays there is a silver lining in all of this. My expectations are:
1. that the injured players are not going to heal in time to play in the upcoming games, resulting in a loss to Man U. and a few more
2. we are not going to come out of the group in the CL (resulting in a cash flow loss of appr. 20M).
3. in spite of the roar of a mob, angry mostly at Rafal, Hicks and Gillette are not going to replace him. They can’t afford it and it would cost them money when they’re released from their misery in Liverpool.

I have been a supporter since the times of Toshack/Keegan and I often wondered what that “passion around LFC” was all about. Now I understand, it is a passion for the blood of gladiators or their commander, with occasional cries for the head of the emperor. Loyalty for the club gives people a chance for primal therapy, screaming, blaming, swearing, name calling, at whoever happens to be in the line of fire. Needless to say, this emotional state, does not help the quality of the debate among the supporters, as attested by voices heard on our forums. I advocate to take a step back fro the emotions of the day, and take a longer view. I believe that:

1. Benitez is a great coach and a man of integrity, courage and passion and loyalty for the club. You can’t you argue with his track record and his commitment to make the club the best.
2. He inspired the team in Instambul to great victory, and immedietely went about reconstructing it.
3. He continued succesful campaigns, against much richer teams, working with a board, stuck in the old ways.
4. He got stuck with 2 american imposters, when Moores and Parry, failed to check their credentials.
5. He kept on raising the expectations of all the fans. After a close finish last year, a lot of us expected a coronation.
6. He become trapped between those expectations and the reality of underfunding (as compared to the best teams in the Premiership and Europe) that caught to him. Faced with declining form and health of his most important players he found no good replacements on the bench.
7. He is still seen as a foreigner, not as one of us, by the pundits, mass media, british coaches and most of the fans.

So where is the silver lining, you must ask.
1. Well, the reign of accidental owners is almost over. They can’t or won’t be able to afford to stay in. They are not qualified in many ways, we all know their shortcomings.
2. LFC is going to attract new ownership soon. I believe, they’ll keep Rafa, and provide him with neccessary resources to advance to to the top.
3. Some players will go: Babel, Voronin, Dossena among them. I’m afraid some with long term potential, but not much support among the crowd will be sacrified as well.
4. We will soon see some of the young players joining the ranks of the first team at Anfield.
5. Soon most will realize this is not the trophy but a rebuilding and a “healing” season. We will be fighting for the 4th place in the league. The real fans will continue to support the team and stop blaming Rafa for all their troubles.
So as you see, I am optimistic long term, assuming the circumstances will not conspire to make Rafa realize that impatience, and latent hostility towards him makes it impossible to continue.

RaNE - October 21st, 2009 at 4:48 pm

dont jump on rafas back he isnt getting the budget needed for a club like liverpool. he has brought in good players fair enough 1 or 2 a season but look at the budget weve got come on its good for what we have.

saif - October 21st, 2009 at 4:48 pm

inshallah we get one aquilani back quickly 2beat the mancs 3 get prince faisel bin abdulla bin saad 4top players 5 a great team and the yanks out

saif - October 21st, 2009 at 4:57 pm

by the way if rafa wants to buy a stricker how about klass jan huntelar he’s haveing a shoker at millan and honda them 2 would add good strenght to liverpool

RaNE - October 21st, 2009 at 5:03 pm

honda is a attacking midfielder i think…. saif

saif - October 21st, 2009 at 5:04 pm

yeah i know but we need them coz of injurys

by the way

Alberto Aquilani has been named among the substitutes for tonight’s reserve league clash with Sunderland – a match you can watch live and exclusive on LFC TV and online.
The Italian international resumed full training at Melwood last week after recovering from an ankle injury, and could now be set for his first action in a red shirt as John McMahon’s side look to record their fifth consecutive victory.

The match kicks off at 7pm, but our coverage on LFC TV – which can also be watched online via the e-Season Ticket – gets underway at 6.30pm.

The Liverpool team for tonight’s game is:

Martin Hansen
Stephen Darby
Robbie Threlfall
Daniel Sanchez Ayala
Chris Mavinga
Steven Irwin
Nathan Eccleston
David Amoo
Nikola Saric
Daniel Pacheco
Alex Kacaniklic

Substitutes:

Emmanuel Mendy
Dean Bouzanis
Jordy Brouwer
Alberto Aquilani
Vincent Weijl

Mark G. - October 21st, 2009 at 5:09 pm

Retard Boy: Could you provide me with a link to the said article, proving that Rafa turned an offer of 5 – 8 M. for Voronin. I ‘ll send you 20 pounds, if you do.
Also, Freud already confirmed that people who in discussion call other participants names, like you do, feel very inadequate, about their manly attributes. So long Mr. 3 inches.

saif - October 21st, 2009 at 5:15 pm

anonymous it’s been stated that he’d start against arsenal but he is eager for his debut so if he’s up for it he’ll tell rafa he wants to and rafa might have to with lucas not being up to it so make out of that what you want (by the way i’m annoying my brother a filthy manc that aquilani will play against the mancs so inshallah it’s againstthe mancs but if it isn’t then oh well)

RaNE - October 21st, 2009 at 5:15 pm

saif hell probably get on for 10 minutes BUT it be good to see him player other players there hopefully get on against manu because we are lacking in numbers

saif - October 21st, 2009 at 5:17 pm

rene you don ‘t make sence in the comment above

RaNE - October 21st, 2009 at 5:20 pm

sorry doing 2 things at once what i mean is

he will probably get on for 10 minutes at the end and gradually get in to reserve matchs until he plays a few full games and there is other players on that list that will hopefull get on against manu because we are lacking in numbers

saif - October 21st, 2009 at 5:24 pm

right thanks for clearing that up and by the way this is on sky sports.com

Fabio Aurelio believes the team and not Rafa Benitez should take the slack for Liverpool’s worst run in 22 years.

The Reds are in the midst of a crisis following Tuesday’s home defeat by Lyon in the UEFA Champions League which condemned them to their fourth successive defeat in all competitions.

Wednesday’s aftermath has seen question marks raised over the future of Benitez and the Spanish tactician will have to mastermind another European fightback to keep the Reds’ Champions League hopes alive.

And Aurelio insists the players are ready to do just that as he targets maximum points from the rest of their games in Group E.

“We must concentrate on winning our final three games in Europe, pressure is building on us,” the defender said.

“But the players know that we are the only people who can change what is going wrong.

“We know what we have to do. We have to change the feeling that we are not a strong team now, especially after what we achieved last season.”

Ryan Babel - October 21st, 2009 at 6:28 pm

last isd me.

Donavan Ried - October 21st, 2009 at 6:36 pm

Evening MarkG, Retryboy,RaNE, …samlfc….isaac hunt, the great Rock of Anfield,and All Hail THE CHOSEN ONE ………

(THE CHOSEN ONE) anonymous – October 21st, 2009 at 1:33 pm

“Should benitez go?

MMM be careful what you wish for. if he goes well move 5 years backwards and more. these owners will invest max 30 mil next season, thats one player. Sacking benetez will be a huge mistake.” ………
There are lots of teams out there that have sacked there Manager and the replacement has hit the ground running ……… Rednapp at Tottenham,Josep “Pep” Guardiola at Barcelona,Johan Cruyff when he took over at Barcelona ,José Mourinho for Porto,Chelsea and Inter, to name but a few …….

isaac hunt – October 21st, 2009 at 4:44 pm

“it is a FACT that when rafa is given a substancial amount of money he always gets the right players for LFC and develops them into world class players “…….

Wow that it then lets give Rafa shit loads of money ……. Now why did i not think of that, great shout there mate …………… Come onnnnnn! Wenger spent how much for Robin van Persie? what was it £2.75m Chelsea paid £8m for Deco, how much did Wigan pay for Antonio Valencia and Wilson Palacios …… Come onnnnn…… Rafa has just spent badly

Mark G. - October 21st, 2009 at 8:12 pm

Incredibly below average owners – followed by incredibly (relatively speaking) small budget for new players – followed by incredibly quick deterioration of Carrager – followed by incredible list of injuries – followed by incredible quickly transformation of Rafa turning into a complete imbecile in a span of 5 months (the last item is a joke of course)
RAFA YNWA

RaNE - October 21st, 2009 at 8:24 pm

fair enough rafa isnt the sharpest tool in the box when it comes to the transfer market but he is a good manager and he will make liverpool champions like he did with valencia

RaNE - October 21st, 2009 at 8:42 pm

i agree with the comment above the comment above

after all look at martin kelly

Mark G. - October 21st, 2009 at 8:47 pm

Thank you, Arsenal loyal anonymous. One explanation for you and all the others complaining about our short squad, so painfully exposed be the current crop of injuries. There are two components to the cost of running the team. One is the money spend to buy new players. We are not competitive here , in what we could afford recently, with the big clubs in the league and in Europe. You can control this, no money, no new players The other is cost of wages. Rafa had to economize there as well. More expensive players in the squad, higher the cost. Also, once a player is brought in, he has to be paid. This part is harder to control.
These two components go hand in hand, they are paid from the total club revenues. That’s why, we haven’t had deep squad, like Machester teams, Chelsea or Arsenal, not to mention Real or Barcelona. So yes we have to rely on the Academy producing good players for the team, which I hope we will see soon.

RaNE - October 21st, 2009 at 9:01 pm

personally i think we have a great youth squad its just the fact that they dont get first team time but now they are starting to and now people are reliesing liverpools youth credintials

RaNE - October 21st, 2009 at 9:04 pm

anonymous – October 21st, 2009 at 6:31 pm

I AGREE COMPLETLY WITH THIS GUY

Mark G. - October 21st, 2009 at 9:05 pm

RaNE, who are you seeing coming into the team and making a difference in the near future?

Mark G. - October 21st, 2009 at 9:07 pm

Also, does anyone knows, how Alberto Aq.. did in the game tonight?

Mark G. - October 21st, 2009 at 9:22 pm

Apparently, Alberto played, did not score, played behind striker, a few good passes, one long cross field (pinpoint), i don’t know how long he was on, but looked gutted at the end. I wish we played Man U 3 weeks later…

Mark G. - October 21st, 2009 at 9:25 pm

Anonymous oct.21 9:20 pm
So, any suggestions, if not go cry on your mommy’s shoulder

Ryan Babel - October 21st, 2009 at 9:33 pm

yh he played 15 minutes didnt look like he had any problem. Apparently he sais he feels better that hes done in years.

Ryan Babel - October 21st, 2009 at 9:36 pm

he reminds me of lampard the way hes good at short and ling passing getts forwards can run with the ball and has a gtreat shot.

Ryan Babel - October 21st, 2009 at 9:37 pm

also like to try lots of through balls which if just 1 or 2 works then torres or gerrard or benayoun could score those chances

Aquilani4goals - October 21st, 2009 at 9:59 pm

guy let stop bein angry and channel our energy toward winnin remember The Law of Attraction which say that we attract into our lives whatever we focus on.let focus on winning man u

Braz - October 21st, 2009 at 10:52 pm

Ref Anonymous Oct 21st @ 9:21pm

“Bollocks man, the guy said he would be winning title after 5 years, hes had 5 years and we are further away now than we were when he took over”

Hate to just quote stats but:
Season before Rafa – Liverpool 4th, 30 points behind Champs.

Last season –
Liverpool 2nd, 4 points behind Champs,
86 points (our best ever in Prem League)
Scored most goals in league (77 Goals) – 9 more than Arse, Chels & Man U
20 Clean sheets (2 less than Chels, 4 less than Man U)

If that is further away than when he took over fair play to you, if not then just do one!

Mark G. - October 21st, 2009 at 11:16 pm

Aquilani4goals:
I see seeing Alberto in action cheered you up.
I always felt, we would have to deal with many difficult moments this season. Regardless how we feel about reasons behind current difficulties, we should take a long term approach, (what doesn’t kill you, makes us {LFC and its fans stronger}), be positive and support our club through thick and thin. As far as this forum is concerned, lets use the nicknames, it makes for a better exchanges and watch our language. YNWA

Donavan Ried - October 22nd, 2009 at 12:22 pm

anonymous – October 21st, 2009 at 8:27 pm ………”Blame goes partly on Rafa n partly on his predecessors… Cuz all of them lacked vision… they were busy building a team of 11 players when they actually should hav concentrated on building a squad….”

GREAT POINT anonymous would have been better if i knew who was saying it though

Donavan Ried - October 22nd, 2009 at 12:34 pm

anonymous – October 21st, 2009 at 7:39 pm ……… You miss the point of what i was saying, which is …. people are aways saying that Rafa has to buy plays on the cheap, he does not have the money to buy top class plays ….. I was saying that he could and just spends badly. i.e Deco cost about the same as degen+Dossena, Salomon Kalou cost roughly the same a Ryan Babel, and Robin Van Persie cost less than £3m ……

isaac hunt - October 22nd, 2009 at 12:36 pm

to all the people saying that anfield is dead and has no atmosphere.

do you not realise that fans cant afford it? plus they have a stupid system for the champions league games where anybody can apply for something and then have tickets for every european game. it was around £650 for a season ticket this year. i had a season ticket last year right behind the goal at the kop but was spending nearly £50 a matchday!! it is a rich mans sport now!!

Aquaman - October 22nd, 2009 at 3:55 pm

So many people are ragging rafa for the lack of strength in depth. I for one think this is garbage. The squad he inherited were not worthy of the shirt (barring the obvious exceptions) and, even though they won ol’ big ears, I think everyone at the time agreed that they needed pruning.

Now if we look at the two most recent clubs to have a total personnel change (ie manc city and the chavs) we see the problem. (Note that all figures quoted exclude undisclosed transfer fees)

First the chavs. We’ll assume a squad takes three years to assemble

2004: spent 80 mil on 6 new players and gained 2.2 mil from sales.
2005: spent 53.4 mil on 3 players excluding lassana diarra’s fee and gained 14.8 from sales excluding Juan Sebastian Veron to Inter
2006: spent 54 mil on 3 new players and gained 23.8 from sales

Total spent – 187.4 mil
Total sold – 40.8 mil
Net: 146.6 mil spent
Average players bought per season: 4
Number of players over 20 mil: 5 (Carvalho at 19.85 included)
reference: http://www.chelseafootballclub.net/transfernews.htm

Next manc city:
2008: spent 79 mil on 6 new players and only a single 300 k sale was disclosed
2009: phew. spent 157 mil on 9 new players and only one 8 mil sale was disclosed

Total spent – 236 mil
Total sold – 8.3 (lots of undisclosed smaller sales though)
Net: 227.7
Average players bought per season: 7.5
Number of players over 20 mil: 4
reference: http://www.footbo.com/Teams/Manchester_City/Transfers

Now lets look at LFC’s first 5 seasons under rafa
2004: spent 32.7 mil on 4 new players and gained 10.5 mil from sales
2005: spent 27.2 mil on 6 new players and gained 14 mil from sales
2006: spent 29.5 mil on 5 new players and gained 11.7 mil from sales
2007: spent 57.6 mil on 5 new players and gained 25.9 from sales
2008: spent 45 mil on 6 new players and gained 29 mil from sales

Total spent: 192 mil
Total sold: 91.1 mil
Net: 100.9 mil
Average players bought per season: 5.2
Number of players over 20 mil: 2
Reference: http://www.lfc-1.com/general/transfers.asp

From this we can see how little Rafa has truly spent in reconstructing his team. His two significant buying seasons (2007 and 2008) were also his two largets selling seasons. And while we, the fans, were shouting and cheering about how easy the title will be with two quality signings, rafa was having to plan who he would be able to sell in order to afford one. In the end, Keane was the chosen one (unsurprisingly), but then Rafa was also handed the news that Xabi was going as well. With this cash he could finally invest in some real quality. After all the trend shows that he spends 20 mil per year more than he sells. That leaves him 70 mil to play with, right?

Wrong. He spent 40 mil (assuming GJ to be 18 mil). Not only that but he also gained another 5 mil from sales (http://www.skysports.com/football/transfers/0,20367,11660_11669,00.html)
Thats a net gain of 25 mil. But, we all know that story. Lets talk squad.

Chelsea spend on average 15.6 mil per player.
Manc city spend on average 15.7 mil per player.
(Noticing a trend here?)
LFC spend on average 7.4 mil per player.
(And the trend comes tumbling down)

Part of this is because rafa buys lots of players (1.2 more per season than the chavs), but even scaling this up that would leave rafas squad at 9.6. Not only that but rafa has to sell from his squad to even be able to get that much!

Chelsea spend 12.2 mil per player net.
Manc city spend 15.6 mil per player net.
LFC spend 3.9 mil per player net.
That means that LFC’s squad cost a third of chelsea’s in terms of net spend. If we remember (which i wonder about sometimes) that LFC finished above chelsea last season, we can see just how brilliant Rafa really is!

Sorry for the incredibly long post, but i think it was worth it.

Aquaman - October 22nd, 2009 at 3:57 pm

oh forgot to add that all figures above were only used for purchases and sales above 500 k.

Jed - October 22nd, 2009 at 4:12 pm

Retryboy – October 21st, 2009 at 3:44 pm

Notice not one comment off jed on chelsea’s loss to villa not a bed of roses on the bridge either is it your band of pensioners relying on drogba for everything. People call us a 2 man team you are a one man team and he is 31. Concentrate on your own problems least we know we have problems.

once again you are forced to eat your own words…4-0 without or star striker….you lose to mediocre sides without yours….you really are a mug of the highest order retryboy, you’d be better off keeping your mouth shut…even your fellow liverpool supporters are turning against you…

Mark G. - October 22nd, 2009 at 4:21 pm

Jed: Are you really a LFC supporter wrapped in Chelsea’s flag. Come out of the closet. What is the source of your strange fascination, our history and trophies? One day, you may feel a taste of Champion League win at your mouth. In the meantime worship your oligarch assembled team and thank the people of Russia who really bankrolled your team.

Mark G. - October 22nd, 2009 at 4:27 pm

Speaking of Nemeth. His loan was a part payment in the Kyrgiakos deal. Also, he will get more playing time in a good league, to help his experience and maturity. So hopefully we will see at Anfield sooner rather than later. Is he better than N’gog at this time, I’m not so sure.

Aquaman - October 22nd, 2009 at 4:35 pm

As i browse through the comments I feel I have to make another point.

For all of those who lambaste some of the cheaper players on our team: what are you trying to achieve? If you feel that the manager has made a bad choice then, please, give us an alternative who:
A) costs the same or less
B) demands similar wages
C) was available at the time

For example, saying “Degen is crap! We should have bought Sergio Ramos” is just plain stupid.

If you feel that the player shouldn’t have been bought in the first place, then what squad do we have? Yes there are several very promising youngsters coming through but (as we saw with spearing at sunderland) they are not dependable purely because of their age. Kids are kids and pressure gets to them. Spearing was class when he came up against Real Madrid with nothing to lose, but add pressure and he wobbles BECAUSE HE IS TOO YOUNG. This is why Lucas starts ahead of him.

Anyway, for fear of writing another novel, I shall stop here.

Mark G. - October 22nd, 2009 at 4:58 pm

Bravo AQUAMAN: This is a sensational statement of facts, that make most of the anti-Rafa arguments go out of the window. People don’t realize, that if anything Rafa, overachieved on all fronts, considering his limited money and non-supportive, not comitted ignorant owners and non-performing parts of the club (Academy). We are like the poor prorovincial cousins, among the strongest 8 teams in the league. Rafa is a realist, have no trouble making decisions, does’t not try to hide his mistakes (see speed with which Keane was sold back to Spurs) and treats his players like adults. No sugarcoating, excuses are for looser. Unfortunately he is not a miracle healer. He took a chance on Aquilani, whose healing took longer, than expected, but that was probably his best option. The funny thing is, nobody knows the truth behing rumours, gossips that papers, and others mass-media use for their benefit. Fans jump at things that fit their beliefs and feel this is cut in stone truth. How many of the trades are totally made by the rags? At the first sign of trouble, like now, some start attacking Rafa and some of the players. Not the best way to go about supporting Liverpool. I thank you for your research and cool, analytical head.

Jed - October 22nd, 2009 at 5:26 pm

mark….i wouldnt sell a liverpool supporter the steam off my piss….i couldnt give the slightest fuck about your history, or the trophies you won the last time the mullet was in….fashion has done a full loop and u still havnt won anymore hahahahaha

Mark G. - October 22nd, 2009 at 5:56 pm

Jed:
Your case need a good psychiatrist. I doubt you can find one here…

Mark G. - October 22nd, 2009 at 6:02 pm

Donovan Ried:
Have you noticed Aquaman’s posts from today. Good read.

...samlfc.... - October 22nd, 2009 at 6:25 pm

Aquaman that was 2 Fantastic posts you done there. I hope we hear lot more of your posts

And yeah Nemeth should carry on playing in Greece for awhile like to January or something just so he can get use to first team action and i know he will become a star of the future! watch this space

Aquaman - October 22nd, 2009 at 6:42 pm

Mark G.: Thanks for the encouragement.

Another comment that I feel I have to address is Rafa’s use of the money he has to spend. One can easily say that since Rafa has spent 100 mil on his squad then surely that should be its current value. This is a valid point as even if players are recycled, the replacements should reach a similar value which would not have an effect on his net spend. The 100 mil was spent on improving the squad. Since Rafa gained 90 mil from sales this should surely mean that our starting 11 should have increased in value by 9 mil per player, right? This could easily equate to an average value of 15 mil per player.

The reason this has not happened is the fundamental problem with recycling players. We as fans can easily say “Oh, Rafa spends 40 mil per season so why doesn’t he buy 2 quality players instead of 5 cheaper ones.” LFC have too large a squad as it stands so this sounds true. After all 3 players who aren’t good enough to play are surely less use than one who always will.

The problem lies in how Rafa assembles that 40 mil in the first place. He has to sell a lot of players to make it up. This means waiting for transfers to go through before he can make any attempt of his own. If he were to spend it all on 2 players then he’d have to risk selling the players to be replaced before the replacement is confirmed. We saw how Dossena’s bid fell through. Imagine if Rafa had sold Arbeloa and then GJ’s transfer fell through. We’d be in shambles.

To prevent this Rafa has to move one step at a time. He can’t sell Cisse (6) and Bellamy (7.5) until Torres has been bought for 20. This limits his transfer money to smaller chunks as opposed to the lump sum for the whole window as quoted by the media.

The only gripe that I have with Rafa’s transfer policy is the number of players who get away for free. Pennant, Kewel, Finnan, to name but a few. In return we’ve had Voronin, Degen, and Aurellio as our best free transfers in, so I guess fair’s fair.

Aquaman - October 22nd, 2009 at 6:45 pm

…samlfc…. : Thanks. I think you’re gonna start telling me to shut up soon, as I don’t plan to stop anytime soon.

Oh and forgive my english in a couple of places in my last post. I’m cringing as i reread it.

Note to self: Always proof read before clicking submit.

Aquaman - October 22nd, 2009 at 6:49 pm

Ha, and I’ve just discovered an error in my first post. LFC actually only had 1 player over 20 mil, ie Torres. We have 2 now with Aquliani.

RaNE - October 22nd, 2009 at 6:53 pm

Mark G

to answer your question last night, it would be dani pacheno he is a great foward and could be as good or even better than torres if you watched the reserve match last night he was man of the match defenitly the 2 free kicks he scored were really good and maybe end of this year or start of next sub or starting 11 i think he is that good

...samlfc.... - October 22nd, 2009 at 6:54 pm

Aquaman – October 22nd, 2009 at 6:45 pm

“…samlfc…. : Thanks. I think you’re gonna start telling me to shut up soon, as I don’t plan to stop anytime soon.”

Ha not a chance! if you keep saying Great posts like the ones i’ve seen so far then i wouldn’t be telling you to shut up infact i would be asking you to make another point. and besides The whole point of these posts are to talk about about the team through the good and the bad but also express your own personal opinion so i wouldn’t say shut up to you anyway

Mark G. - October 22nd, 2009 at 6:57 pm

Thanks to Aquaman, the age of reason is returning to our forum.

RaNE - October 22nd, 2009 at 7:07 pm

i just want to say aquaman great posts keep them up your posting some very good items, really good reads and some people after reading that must feell like pricks for saying what they did and you saying that after so good job

on to business many people are saying if i was manager id bring in such and such and they are all like 50mil or so and liverpool dont have that type of money BUT 1 player has suddenly sprung to my mind and i feel would be a great player in the heart of liverpools midfield. Tamir Cohen the player from bolton. let me just remind you of a few things. Dad played for liverpool could go there because of family history. He plays for bolton. I dont mean this as a insult but getting him from bolton i feel would cost a lower price from the likeness of a big spanish team. Look at his goalscoring record this season 3 goals in 7 app for someone who can play attacking midfield, defending midfield or just midfield. and the best part would be age young but not too young

Mark G. - October 22nd, 2009 at 7:22 pm

AQAMAN and other boys. A few questions to ponder.
Pennan refused to dance and sign a new contract, Kewell, I think, did not have much value, due to his injuries, Rafa did not want to give him a new contract, I am not sure about Finnan.
Now, what’s your view of Lorik Cana, I think we could use him. Apparently, we were trying this summer, Sunderland beat us with a higher offer. I think he would be a good insurance for Masch, if he forces his way out. And what about Stephen Defour, currently injured, Red Nose is sending him get well cards daily.
What other targets can you see on a horizon, I am thinking of less known names, not Davids (Villa and Silva) who we can not afford, under current regime.
Also, was Insua always lacking in speed, or was he just tired against Lyon. Would you play Skrtel on Sunday, ahead of Carra.

Aquaman - October 22nd, 2009 at 7:38 pm

Thanks RaNe. You’ll be hearing a lot of me in the future so I’m glad to see that at least I won’t be boring people. Hell if enough people like it maybe I’ll see if COS will let me write articles.

...samlfc.... - October 22nd, 2009 at 7:43 pm

Aquaman On behalf of The rest of us please do! i’ll definately be reading them

Mark G. - October 22nd, 2009 at 8:31 pm

Any news on Nemeth’s performance at the Europa Cup today? AEK lost to Bate Borisov 1:2

Aquaman - October 22nd, 2009 at 8:39 pm

All i know is that nemeth didn’t score and AEK had 9 men o the field at the end.

Donavan Ried - October 22nd, 2009 at 9:01 pm

Aquaman + MarkG …. No matter how much is quoted that Rafa has spent ( Aquaman quotes one among Others have quote other amount that fact bstill remains that Rafa has had a vass amount of money to spend and with very few excpetion bought poorly ……

“For all of those who lambaste some of the cheaper players on our team: what are you trying to achieve? If you feel that the manager has made a bad choice then, please, give us an alternative who:
A) costs the same or less
B) demands similar wages
C) was available at the time” ………

Did I not do this with when i mentioned Robin van Persie, Antonio Valencia, Salomon Kalou, and Wilson Palacios, Ok you can get aroud it be saying were the wage demands the same, but that would be nit picking. You might as well say, do they all dress to the same side, or they all had to have the same colour eyes and hair …….

Reguadless of the praise that all you Rafaites want to heap on Rafa he has had Five long years and the money to build a strong in depth squad for players and has failed to do so ……

Lets use your figures shall we …….
Total spent: 192 mil
Total sold: 91.1 mil
Net: 100.9 mil
Average players bought per season: 5.2
Number of players over 20 mil: 2

Well 5.2 player per season …… He could have brought 3.2 or 2.2 quality players in over the five years that he has had, instead his choice was to go for quantity over quality. two quality buy per season and we would be in a stronger postions squad wise ……
And for those of you who keep quoting what Rafa has done in the pass here one for you …… Rafa and Valencia :-…….. “Benítez fell out with Jesus Garcia Pitarch, the club’s director of sport, over control of new signings and the club’s failure to reinforce the squad with the players he wanted. “…… Sound famailer ???…..

At the end of the Rafa like some of his choice of player simple is not good enough, and more and more of you are beginning to and will come to see it

Aquaman - October 22nd, 2009 at 9:45 pm

Donovan Ried: I’m not quite sure how spending 190 mil in 5 seasons could ever be considered a “vast amount of money” for a top four side. This equates to 40 mil per season and in a later post I mentioned that this is not necessarily all available in one lump sum.

I’m a little pressed for time at the moment but I will in the future do a more in depth comparison of (hopefully) the current top 7 clubs (top 4 + manc city, tot & av). The most common complaint I hear about Rafa’s transfer policy is, as you said, that he buys several low quality players over a few quality players. The second most common complaint is the weakness of our squad. Is it only me who thinks that these complaints are directly opposed to one another?

In my view Rafa is trying to buy quality. He really is. But in order to make the cash to do that he has to sell. In the wealthier clubs they can afford to move players from the current starting 11 to the bench, making them squad players. Rafa has to sell these players to be able to afford their replacements. This has the double barrel effect of making it necessary for Rafa to buy more players to fulfill this squad role.

Now Rafa has the true dilemma. say he has 20 mil on hand (5 of which he raised himself). Should he buy Torres and Voronin, or two 10 mil strikers. Personally I choose the former, but if you disagree then that’s fine to.

I should have added another stat to the first post, so I’ll do it now.

Average number of players sold per season (for the above years):
Chelsea: 2.7
Man C: 2
LFC: 5

I’ve included in these stats any undisclosed transfers of significant players. My references are the same as above.

Clearly from this we can see that while Rafa buys the most, he certainly sells the most as well. You can read into it what you want, but this couple with rafa’s low net spend per player leads me to believe that he sells in order to buy, and has to fabricate his bench with the scraps.

Aquaman - October 22nd, 2009 at 10:02 pm

Oh and before I get Arsenal slammed in my face. Arsene Wenger is well known to favor youth. He’s been the manager at the club since before Father Time could walk, so he’s got things running his way in every facet of the club. So when he has lots of promising youngsters pushing through from the academy and abroad one can safely say that this is because he has turned the focus of the club in that direction. In his first five seasons I don’t think everyone was raving about how young his team were (I’m willing to be proven wrong though). Such things take time.

On to Rafa. Does no one else find it suspicious that after so long a period with no good youngsters all of a sudden we have a flood? Could this be because Rafa has changed things in the past which are only reaping the rewards now?

And as for Van Percie, Kalou, Valencia, and Palacios: Thats 1 Arsenal, 1 Chelsea and 2 Wigans. You can’t expect a single club to pick up every bargain in the world. But if you want to talk about LFC bargains then a certain Xabi Alonso springs to mind…

Aquaman - October 22nd, 2009 at 10:05 pm

And, incidentally, Kalou possibly cost half of what Babel cost. But seriously, who wasn’t excited when they first saw Babel play?

Mark G. - October 23rd, 2009 at 1:02 am

AQUAMAN and other boys. A few questions to ponder.
Pennan refused to dance and sign a new contract, Kewell, I think, did not have much value, due to his injuries, Rafa did not want to give him a new contract, I am not sure about Finnan.
Now, what’s your view of Lorik Cana, I think we could use him. Apparently, we were trying this summer, Sunderland beat us with a higher offer. I think he would be a good insurance for Masch, if he forces his way out. And what about Stephen Defour, currently injured, Red Nose is sending him get well cards daily.
What other targets can you see on a horizon, I am thinking of less known names, not Davids (Villa and Silva) who we can not afford, under current regime.
Also, was Insua always lacking in speed, or was he just tired against Lyon. Would you play Skrtel on Sunday, ahead of Carra.

Mark G. - October 23rd, 2009 at 2:12 am

AQUAMAN and other boys. A few questions to ponder.
Pennan refused to dance and sign a new contract, Kewell, I think, did not have much value, due to his injuries, Rafa did not want to give him a new contract, I am not sure about Finnan.
Now, what’s your view of Lorik Cana, I think we could use him. Apparently, we were trying this summer, Sunderland beat us with a higher offer. I think he would be a good insurance for Masch, if he forces his way out. And what about Stephen Defour, currently injured, Ferguson is sending him get well cards daily.
What other targets can you see on a horizon, I am thinking of less known names, not Davids (Villa and Silva) who we can not afford, under current regime.
Also, was Insua always lacking in speed, or was he just tired against Lyon. Would you play Skrtel on Sunday, ahead of Carra.

Donavan Ried - October 23rd, 2009 at 1:10 pm

Aquaman – October 22nd, 2009 at 9:45 pm ……. REall I am not being funny. You have written well thought out pieces here and they have been great reads, BUT, and hers the but. I am not concered with what Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal spend, I have stated here that what Rafa has had to spend he has spent bably, we few exceptions ….. £40m a season he only needed to but two quality players for £20m each. …….
“The most common complaint I hear about Rafa’s transfer policy is, as you said, that he buys several low quality players over a few quality players. The second most common complaint is the weakness of our squad. Is it only me who thinks that these complaints are directly opposed to one another” …….
It’s You…… To Improve the squad you should be buying better players and the current players that you have now should become the squad players, Players like Albert Riera,Dirk Kuyt, and Yossi Benayoun Three players that i really rate for our current team, but none the less in all honesty are not the greatest players in Europe …..Also Rafa chose to sell Steve Finnan and Riise before getting suitable back up, Were as if he had kept them we would be a strong squad even now, Riise is still as good as Insua, but faster ……..

You can’t expect a single club to pick up every bargain in the world. …… Never for one minute suggested we could …. But for the amount of players that Rafa buys you might think he would pick up a few.

But if you want to talk about LFC bargains then a certain Xabi Alonso springs to mind… One in how many????

Does no one else find it suspicious that after so long a period with no good youngsters all of a sudden we have a flood? Could this be because Rafa has changed things in the past which are only reaping the rewards now? ……..
Give me a break…….. When does he every play then??? How often do you see them on the bench??? …….Some of them have been in the reserves for 3-4 seasons Arsenal would have played most of these players long age and shipped out those how were not good enough most of ours will be22-23 before they get a real chance under Rafa …..

And, incidentally, Kalou possibly cost half of what Babel cost. But seriously, who wasn’t excited when they first saw Babel play? …….
That maybe true, but now with Kalou on the Ball, or Babel you feel something might happen with Kalou, with Babel you a hoping that he just does not give the ball away ……..

Aquaman - October 23rd, 2009 at 5:26 pm

Donovan Reid: To use your approach: “To Improve the squad you should be buying better players and the current players that you have now should become the squad players” I did address this point in my post above.

As for Riise. Rafa bought Dossena before he sold Riise. Now while that sounds really bad now, Dossena was one of best fullbacks in Italy when Rafa bought him. Argue whether its Rafa’s fault for not predicting he would flop if you wish, but I feel that would be harsh.

Finnan I can”t comment on. He left for free so whether that was him or Rafa is up for debate. Probably more Rafa than Finnan, but again Degen came in first (who i don’t think is nearly as bad as everyone claims, just unlucky with injuries).

You also say Xabi is one bargain in how many. Ok, Kalou is one in how many? And add Yossi (5 mil) to the list for LFC. I also think that Agger for 5.8 is a bargain (especially when you think that Chelsea bought Carvalho for 20) Additionally you say that Rafa should invest in higher priced quality rather than lower priced maybes. This would mean that you want him to find bargains while only looking for quality…

Comparing LFC to Arsenal in terms of youth policy is not really fair. Arsene Wenger has been focusing the club on youth for years. Rafa’s had bigger problems to deal with first. But I do agree that they should be played more often (though we’ve seen spearing, ayala and kelly start already this season, not to mention insua). I really think that Rafa sees potential in the current crop, and we’ll see a lot more of them this season.

Mark G. - October 23rd, 2009 at 7:29 pm

Some of our supporters are holding Rafa up to unrealistically high standards. Others are bringing up certain items in isolation and then shriek hysterically. They are missing big picture, using a time frame of one game at a time, not seeing forest for the trees. I advocate the opposite.

1. Admit, we were not the favourites for the league championship this year. Amongst the 8 teams that can win the league, we are possibly the weakest link financially. We can’t afford a new stadium, our gate take is much lower than Man U’s or Arsenal, we don’t have an oligarch or sheik owners with loads of money. Wishful thinking does not win many championships in professional sports. No money no Barry, Malouda, Vidic, Turner, VdV, Angel di Maria, Lorik Cana, Lee Cattermole, David Silva or Villa. Welcome to Anfield Mr. Kyrgiakos
.
2. We are victims of our own success, coming 2nd last year, while missing Gerrard and Torres in many games. That inflated hopes and aspiration faster than the you can infamous beach ball.

3. We started the season with many of our players on the sidelines, or not fully fit. Rather than getting healthier, our squad got sicker. Chelsea, Man U. would bring their strong squad players, we know who sits on our bench.

4. Panic set in, rather than admitting the obvious, lack of resources, some “armchair managers” pointed their fingers at Rafa, the easiest target. As attested by many posts of Aquaman and others, Rafa holds his own when compared to the legends of Liverpool. And he hasn’t got stupid all of the sudden.

5. Rather than supporting the team and waiting for better, healthier fortunes some resorted to “lazy minds” approach, contempt for Rafa. Forgetting, this is not how we do things in Liverpool, devaluing and diminishing our club. Criticism, healthy argument helps, spitting into the face of your manager, it is a road to nowhere.

6. For those that need encouragement, watch the highlights of two Man U games from last year, then Chelsea CL game and Arsenal’ 4:4 game. Fabulous, but also in the last two you can see how we started to leak goals and how we lost the championship last year. Figuring prominently Mascherano, Alonso, Arbeloa, Aurelio, Carragher and the rest of the team. You win as a team you lose as a team. The team needed new players; Johnson is showing his worth so far, Aquilane hopefully will soon.

7. Remember the saying: You have a government you deserve. I wil change it a bit, You have a club, the owners deserve (you don’t elect them). We fans, would always hope for best club in the world. If we don’t like the ownership, work towards the change. There are many ways to effect it.

8. On Sunday we won’t be favoured, but let’s make sure our boys will feel our unity in common cause. United we stand, Divided we fall. Whatever happens against Man U., it is only a one game in a long march to the top. Change of ownership would help, let’s hope.
YNWA

Aquaman - October 23rd, 2009 at 8:43 pm

Great Post Mark G.
I would like to add another similar point if I may.

A large part of why so many people are scared for LFC is the distance that our feelings have fallen. 2 months ago we were all bouncing and singing “We’re gonna win the league”, and now (if our current form continues, God forbid) we will struggle to make the top 4. Obviously this won’t happen and I see us comfortably finishing at least 4th at the end of the season, but things are scary now.

Anyway, as I was saying. The valley seems deeper when you fall from a mountain. After finishing so close to the top last season we all immediately expected to go one better this year. This is not unjustified as our form at the end of the season was THE best in the league. So why shouldn’t this continue?

Unfortunately football happened. Teams wobble. The best do, the worst do more. And as the soaring heights of the mountain of our expectations seem to rise higher and higher, we panic. Now I won’t deny that things are bad, they are not catastrophic.

If we look at the teams who have beaten us in the league (AV, tot, sun, Che), all four of them sit in the top 7 on the table. Three of these games were away (AV was at Anfield), and two were right at the beginning of the season. Now before I get told off for making excuses (which they kind of are), this is not to say that we’ve been

Aquaman - October 23rd, 2009 at 8:54 pm

Meh. Hit submit by mistake. Continued below:

… been unlucky (We haven’t played well enough in truth). This is to say that we are not in crisis. Remember that we have no draws at this stage which means that we have 3 points per game from teams in positions 9 -20 (obviously we haven’t played them all, but bear with me), and 0 points from teams 1 – 7. If this trend continues (though its very unlikely to never draw in a season) this will give us 72 points. Which is what Arsenal got last year. Granted this is not the title that we all dreamed of, but (as I showed above) Rafa is over performing with the budget he’s given (yeah yeah yeah, bicker all you want).

I for one do not expect this trend to continue and I expect to see us flying high again really soon. I’ll be very surprised if we don’t get at least 80 points this season which (according to the trend) is a safe bet for third at least.

So while everyone bitches and moans about us not winning the title this year, I remind you who it was who gave us that hope. It was Rafa who guided our team to 86 points last year and Rafa who will guide us back up the table this year. The title is not out of reach, but as Rafa often says “It’s too early to talk about the title.”

Mark G. - October 23rd, 2009 at 9:19 pm

Aquaman:
Sometimes a mistake has unintended, positive consequence. By splicing your post into two you didn’t go to the dreaded moderating line-up. I am awaiting for a reply from the editor about the number of characters that mark the Rubicon Do you have the answer?
Let’s go int the the team composition for Sunday. I would play Pepe, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Insua, Lucas, Mascherano, Kuyt, Benayoon, Aurelio and Torres up front. As far as coach is concerned, I would still use Benitez with Donovan Ried or Retryboy as first subs for him. N’gog, if Torres doesn’t last or Babel, if Johnson can’t play the full 90 mins and we need speed on the wing. That isif we are behind, if in lead would use to fortify defence? Over to you, and others who want to participate. My assumptions of course. Stevie and Riera not available.

Aquaman - October 23rd, 2009 at 9:35 pm

I think Agger needs a rest as he’s played 4 games in two weeks and he’s just come back from injury. Also (no matter how bad his form) I would never leave Carra out of my starting line up. So I guess we’re back to Carra and Squirtle for our back 2 with Johnson and Insua flanking.

Midfield Lucas & Mascherano due to lack of choice (don’t fancy Aurelio in midfield with his current form). On left and right I’d have Aurelio (meh) and Kuyt. In front Yossi just behind Voronin. No wait. Dammit. What’s his name…. That other striker of ours. Ah, its on the tip of my tongue….

So yeah, pretty much exactly the same as you, though I’m not so sure I like the strength of your manager’s bench. I think we should sell RetryBoy and buy Ancelotti for cover (he he he).

Subs I’d guess: Cavalieri, Agger or the barbarian, Degen (he’s not that bad, dammit!) or Kelly, Babel, Spearing, N’Gog, and the inevitable Voronin.

RaNE - October 24th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

since you are all talking about rafa and his bargains. which certain clubs have got some pretty good ones kalou, van persie which donovan has mentioned but you arnt saying liverpools bargains. Yes, Alonso has been mentioned but not alot of players spring to mind under rafas time at anfield so id like to mention a few names

Reina, 6mil, villareal (one of the best and most consistent keepers in the premierleague for that price you cant knock rafa on that considering he could be potentially worth maybe 20 – 30 mil)

Momo Sissoko, 4.5mil, auxerre ( good midfielder brought in played his part in anfield moved on to juventus, JUVENTUS at a higher cost, good dealings great bargain)

Aurelio, FREE, valencia ( great defender when fit and a great 1st choice left back for nothing. brilliant free kicks and set pieces plays)

Daniel Agger, 4.5mil, Brondby ( rock solid defender and basically so cheap for what we got him for if we go to sell him hed be double or triple the price)

these are just a few but others like

Bellemy 6mil
Arbeloa 3mil
yossi 5mil
Insua , was a swap for paletta ( great bargain )
skertl 6mil

ETC

rafa has been charge of liverpool for 5 years or so, while wenger and other managers alot longer and for the bargains he has got you cant deny some are good.

RaNE - October 27th, 2009 at 6:57 pm

?? ok