Liverpool Line Up Klinsmann: Let the Madness Begin
by YNWA on October 23rd, 2009 487 words | 65 commentsJurgen the German lined up as potential Rafa successor, hopefully just paper talk!
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Former Liverpool target Jurgen Klinsmann still has ambitions to take charge of a team in the Premier League.
The ex-Tottenham striker was sounded out about taking over at Anfield two years ago by co-owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks.
At the time, the Americans insisted Klinsmann was a contingency plan in case Rafa Benitez walked away from the club.Klinsmann, who left his post as Germany manager after the 2006 World Cup, has been out of work since he was sacked by Bayern Munich before the end of last season.
But when asked if a top-flight team in England still appeals, he said: ‘You never rule anything out. Once you’ve experienced the emotions that football can give you, you want to continue having them.
‘I never thought I would manage Germany in the World Cup and then become Bayern Munich manager last year.’Klinsmann was shocked by Liverpool’s defeat to Lyon this week but added in The Sun: ‘I think a tie in Lyon and if you beat Fiorentina at home that will probably put you through. Nothing’s lost yet.
‘It’s a difficult moment for Rafa. Maybe the game on Sunday is the right one to beat Manchester United at home to turn the situation around.’
Benitez is under increasing pressure after the Reds lost four straight games for the first time since 1987. They trail Premier League leaders United by seven points ahead of Sunday’s showdown at Anfield. (Daily Mail)
So it’s this old chestnut again. Of course Messrs Hicks and Gillett tried to entice Jurgen Klinsmann to the club a while back and did so in such an inept manner that it was picked up by all the national newspapers and Rafa was understandably not best pleased by yet another example of being undermined by our owners.
I don’t expect this to be the last time we hear about the potential replacement of the Liverpool boss and other names have been thrown in the ring, from Jose Mourinho to Martin O’Neill. Clearly the red tops and ‘experts’ are jumping the gun big time and I hope to high heaven Benitez is not axed, he is the right man for the job and if the Yanks oust him they will find themselves even more despised by the great majority of the Anfield faithful.
On the Klinsmann front, no one can deny what a great player he was for club and country but his record as a football boss is not exactly covered in glory. Yes he led Germany to the World Cup semi’s but then most countries do well when they host the tournament and his one season of club management, at Bayern Munich, went poorly. He took a team who were champions and German cup holders and failed to achieve anything in the way of silverware.
YNWA
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anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 11:48 am
SIGN UP!
LAD
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 11:50 am
Bye bye rafa,ever since u put on weight,i knew it was macdonalds instead of liverpool..
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 11:57 am
dont get rid of rafa get rid of the two egghead americans
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:00 pm
get rid of him, have you seen what Klinsman did with Germany.Bayern
and the fuck up at munich wasn’t his fault. We will sign Klose if we get him =)
...samlfc.... - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:01 pm
I guess our patheitc owners forgot how all these background arguements ruined the club 2 seasons ago…….we were doing really well and then they talked bout Klinsmann taking over making everyone at liverpool pissed off and our performance dropped and we ended up coming fourth!
Plus of recent form being really poor so we really can’t be dealing with this as our form will become even worse than it i now.
If they want to talk about Klinsmann then go Ahead but at the END of the season not during as it messed up our season before and i don’t want that to happen again!
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:01 pm
if rafa goes please please please not klinnsman. hed be the end of our great club
Retryboy - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Like Ynwa says his record as a manager isn’t good if he can’t manage to win his own countries league with the biggest team by far there that speaks volumes people won’t like to hear it but they do have to explore other avenues in case this run continues missing out on champions league placings would have the same affect as a lesser team getting relegated gotta do those sorts of things behind closed doors as a contingency plan something the americans seem incapable of
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Rafa wont get sacked the american owners cant afford it! They have sold some of their assests so i can see them investing a bit of money maybe £20mil to get the clubs faultering season back on track. This in the grand scheme of things will make the club a more “saleable” assest and insure that they get the best possible price. Raf will stay as will all of the big stars i hope to god money will be made available but i can see a minimum requirement come Jan of all the dead wood being shipped out, usual names apply.
Just a thought!
Dom - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
I would also like to show my discust at the fact you actually went read The Sun, and then wrote an article about the article they wrote.
Are you really a Liverpool fan YNWA?
Donavan Ried - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
A change in Manager would be Most welcome, but not until the end of the season …… Or we could give Rafa the £20+m it would cost to sack him, let him buy another couple of dogdey players nobody else will touch add more to the wage bill of Liverpool Fc miss out on the Prem’ Again, So the Rafaites can lick more ass and Sack him at the end of next season. …… Or we could give Rafa the £15+m it would cost to sack him, let him buy a couple of dogdey players,….. I think you get the picture …….. As for Klinsmann I think that that boat may have already sailed……
My choice would be someone Like Marco Van Basten, (someone players respect and would love to play under), Jose Mourinho ( a great Manager,and has the ability to spot and develope young talent) or Didier Deschamps, could name a few others
Dom - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Donavan. There is a new writer on my blog, meaning even more news. Take a look…
Donavan Ried - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Afternoon Retryboy,…samlfc…. Dom
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:26 pm
You lot really make me laugh!!
you all bang on and on and on about how the media is anti liverpool…anti benitez! like crazed conspiracy theorists…then you post silly post like this after reading it in the mail – unbelievable
stop being silly
Dom - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:29 pm
It is a article by The Sun, so the chances are it’s putrid and petulent filth spouted from the mouths of the reporter…
The thing is:
You could give 1 million monkey’s typewriters, and after 1 millions years they would write shakespeare…
You give 1 monkey a pen and some scrap paper, after 15 minutes he would have written the article that The Sun did.
Rafa is the right man for the job. The club cant afford to fire him, literally
YNWA – Nice to see you backing up Rafa… Not so nice seeing you reading the sun.
Hoogleboogybugleboy - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:31 pm
I read that Klinsman would like to manage in England but I have yet to read (since the last time) that Pinky & Perky want him as Liverpool boss. It doesn’t say that in your article either YNWA just in the headline?
I cannot think of a worse choice for manager. The guy is clearly inept and as Retryboy quite rightly for once stated above; “If he can’t manage to win his own countries league with the biggest team by far there, that speaks volumes”.
The fans that say they want Benitez replaced keep going on about he’ll never win the Premier league. If we are to get a manager that has won the Premier league then we don’t really have a lot of choice. The list is: Fergusson, Wenger, Maureeenio and Dalglish so in my opinion any other manager than those listed and we would be no better off. Fergusson is a definate NO!!! Maureenio is also, (According to the Mancs that I know) being lined up as Fergussons replacement so is also a no!!!. Wenger, again as far as I can see is a definate no!!! That leaves Mr “King” Kenny Dalglish. My hero and a fantastic player and manager, who would be the perfect choice but he has said on sooo many occasions that he does not want to manage again. I believe him but if Benitez was to leave for whatever reason I would love to have Kenny at the helm again and if he were to take the job I believe he would again win the league but that is just fantasy talk I guess.
Hoogleboogybugleboy - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Oh and Donavan. You go on about the “Rafaites” as you call them licking ass etc but you fail to see that you are in fact much worse keep going on about your hatred of the man. All these so called “Rafaites” as far as I can see are just realists supporting the club and manager and not constantly whining on and on with negative, depressing drivle. Non of us are happy at the moment but being negative and defeatest and changing facts to suit their arguments does not help. That’s just my opinion.
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:43 pm
“but that is just fantasy talk I guess.” sums it all up ….. some of you on here are clearly fantasists of the highest order.
its amusing to read your ramblings sometimes….but c’mon lads reality can be fun too
Hoogleboogybugleboy - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:45 pm
I was actually being sarcastic but then i guess that gets lost on some on here. Just took this from the LFC main site.
KENNY: WE STICK TOGETHER AT ANFIELD
Jimmy Rice 23 October 2009
Kenny Dalglish believes Liverpool could have no better man to steer them through their dip in form than Rafa Benitez.
The Reds have lost their last four games – a sequence not seen at Anfield since the glorious reign of Dalglish himself.
Having come through such a dip stronger in his own managerial days, the Kop King speaks with authority when he claims ’sticking together’ will be the key to turning our season around.
Dalglish said: “Everyone within the upper echelons of this club has no doubt whatsoever about Rafa – I know that for a fact.
“Everybody at Liverpool Football Club knows Rafa is the right man to get the club through this.
“No-one is pumped up and panicking in any way, shape or form. Everyone is being as helpful and supportive as they possibly can be to the manager.
“Obviously, whether you’re a manager or a player, you have to retain your confidence and belief in what you are doing.
“You have also got to retain your belief in each other. The manager has to retain belief in his players and the players must retain their confidence in the manager.
“It’s very important that everybody sticks together to get themselves through this.”
Dalglish, who spent 14 years at Anfield as player and manager, added: “Of course it’s not good for Liverpool Football Club – or any club – to lose four games in a row. It is a bad run and the supporters feel it equally as badly as everyone at the club does.
“Everybody’s accountable. When you have success everybody takes their fair share of the credit – and rightly so. So when it goes badly the same thing must apply in reverse.
“People have made mistakes but it’s how you react to them that’s the most important thing.
“The other vitally important thing is that you must never allow other people to drive wedges between you and through various parts of the football club.
“Of course everyone must stand up and be counted – and then at least we’ll be going in the right direction.”
Dalglish also praised the Anfield faithful for the support displayed during Tuesday’s 2-1 defeat to Lyon – especially after skipper Steven Gerrard departed through injury in the first half.
He said: “The Liverpool supporters were really terrific.
“When Steven went off they raised the roof and tried to get the players going, because they know how important Fernando is and Steven is – and Glen Johnson too, who was out through injury.
“But the players can’t depend on the supporters lifting them all the time – sometimes the players have to lift the supporters as well.”
Tuesday’s result prompted a predictable response from certain pundits who relish sticking the knife in Liverpool.
But Dalglish added: “If you are losing four games on the spin you’re not going to be getting praise – but you can’t take too much to heart what you read in the papers.
“Yes, there’s criticism. Some will be constructive and Rafa will look at this and take it under his wing and say maybe that’s right. Other parts he will totally dismiss.
“But there’s no way Liverpool Football Club and the majority of people would want Rafa to go anywhere.
“Remember last year they beat Manchester United with Steven only playing 20 minutes and Fernando not playing at all. So if we did it last year why can’t we do it this year?
“The players will need to stand up and be counted. But then everybody needs to do that.
“For anyone that has got any affiliation to Liverpool Football Club, anyone at all, then it’s time for them to rally round and channel all their efforts in the one direction.
“That is to help the manager and the players to get the one result everybody wants. That’s the only way to do it.”
Dalglish’s Liverpool lost four games in the spring of 1987, with a League Cup final defeat to Arsenal sandwiched in between league losses to Tottenham, Wimbledon and Norwich.
He went on: “You can understand the frustration of the supporters – but Liverpool supporters are absolutely fantastic at supporting the manager and the team.
“And it is in adversity when they are at their strongest.”
On his own role as an ambassador and at the Academy, the Scot said: “The only reason Kenny Dalglish is at Liverpool Football Club is because Rafa wanted him here.
“I know the support that a manager expects from his staff – because I’ve been there. And I like to think I’ll give the boss the same support I would have expected. We have no other option but to stick together.
“Remember, the players that are playing now are the same players that came so close last year, bar Xabi Alonso. They don’t suddenly become bad players – they just lose a bit of confidence.
“They know they are better players than it is looking at the minute.
“Everybody knows that. But they have got to believe it.”
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 12:54 pm
rafa is ok wat. he won CL,and FA already. wat about SAF. he is not that good at his firstb 5 seasons.??????
Dom - October 23rd, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Rafa Benitez will take charge of his 200th league game for Liverpool on Sunday – and we’ve unearthed some fascinating statistics comparing the Spaniard’s record to rival managers.
Benitez has won 113 of his 199 top-flight clashes since taking charge of Liverpool in 2004 – an impressive 56.8 per cent.
This compares favourably to the records of Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger in their first 200 league games.
Ferguson won just 87 from 200 (43.5 per cent) after joining Manchester United in 1986 – and it took the Scot almost seven years to collect a league title.
Wenger triumphed in 110 (55 per cent) of his first 200 league matches following his appointment at Highbury in 1996 – a stat which was good enough at the time to win him a championship trophy in 1997-98.
Meanwhile, just one Liverpool manager from down the years can boast a better record than Benitez.
Kenny Dalglish won 120 of his first 200 (60 per cent) league games.
Bob Paisley totted up 113 victories (56.5 per cent), Bill Shankly 106 (53 per cent) and Gerard Houllier 101 (50.5 per cent).
Hoogleboogybugleboy - October 23rd, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Cheers for that Dom. Them’s the stats people and before anyone say’s “But you can make stat’s say whatever you like”, in this case I don’t think you can. As Kenny and Bryan Ferry both said. “Let’s stick together”.
Donavan Ried - October 23rd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Hoogleboogybugleboy – October 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 pm …….. Have i hurt you feells??? …….
“but you fail to see that you are in fact much worse keep going on about your hatred of the man.” ……..
I don’t hate Rafa as a man, just hate the fact that we(Lfc)n have such a average manager. On occassion i have defended Rafa when he has not been at fualt, but he as been at fualt too many times ………
Was it just me or were there fans booing his lastest bit of tactical genius, the substitution of Vorornin for Benayoun?………
“as far as I can see are just realists supporting the club and manager” …….
Correction THE CLUB, but yes “realists”……
You drone on about Supporting the Manager even when he clearly is not good enough becuase you fear that if you saying anything that your peers will say that you are ” Not a true supporter” ……
You can sit there and be as Positive as you want, it will not chance a Robin into a Rooster, nor will it chance LFC into Premier League winners as long as Rafa remains manager ……..
Steve McMahon Posted here on a few occassions that “Rafa could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory” ….. Oh how so true ……..
So you continue to be Positive and ignore what is wrong at the Club. I will continue to shout about i and draw attenion to it ……..
You and the other Rafaites may be content with a forage into the Champions league, and the odd win over Man Utd, but some of us are not ……..
We are in real danger of become like the mediocre England national team, talk about when we won the 19 league title Last Century. YES for that is when it was we last won the League 1989-90. it is now 2009 people 20 year further on ……..
But being positive and changing facts to suit their arguments does not help. But Heyyyyyy! that’s just my opinion.
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Would prefer Harry Redknap or Martin O’Neill
Dom - October 23rd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Here is something that may interest you guys.
http://www.oleole.com/blogs/the-kop-end/posts/calling-all-realists
Scouse Magic - October 23rd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
As much as I am losing confidence in Rafa we have to support him. He has turned round our shocking youth system and this is now starting to bear fruit, he just has to give them a chance. I have said in the past that his signings have been shocking, but he has signed some quality and hopefully now he has full control over transfers, we will start to see something special. Okay his tactics and substitutions have been strange but he has done it correctly when it really matters. Aquilani will be the first test under this control and from what I’ve seen of him he could be a very useful signing. There is two main reasons why he shouldn’t be sacked, 1. He is probably the most tactically astute manager in the league. 2. He has just signed a 5 year deal, if we were to sack him it”ll cost us approx £15M-£20M, which would severely hinder a new manager.
Lastly, i wouldn’t want Klinsmann as manager we end like up playing like Chelsea scum diving everywhere!!!!
Retryboy - October 23rd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Anon 12.23 i thought the same pre-season but unfortunately it seems that no matter how many assets the americans sell none of the money gets put into liverpool. Saying that it was gillett before selling stakes in his teams this time it is hicks who i have said for a while seems to be a lot more interested in liverpool and have a different agenda so maybe some of his money will go into the club.
Donavan Ried - October 23rd, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Dom – October 23rd, 2009 at 1:00 pm …….. Infromative as ever Dom ….
But in those fisrt 200 games what did they win? ………
RAFA:-1 Charity Shield, 1 FA Cup. 1 Champions League 1 Cup Winners Cup
(4 Major trophies)
Reserves:-2 FA Youth Cups.2 Reserve Division One Winners, and 1Barclay National champions
(5 Reserves Trophies))
Houllier:1 Charity Shield, 2 League Cups, 1 Fa Cup,1 Ufea Cup,1Cup Winners Cup
(6 Major Trophies)
Reserves:- Carlburg Trophy
1( 1 Reserve trophy)
Who record is better?……
And fun how Benitez. and his time that he had to build form sratch becuase Gerard Houllier was such a poor manager can only manage “an impressive 56.8 per cent ( 113 wins)”. vs Gerard Houllier 101 (50.5 per cent).112 more wins and two less trophies
Hoogleboogybugleboy – October 23rd, 2009 at 1:20 pm ………..
“and before anyone say’s “But you can make stat’s say whatever you like”, in this case I don’t think you can.” ……..
How very true, how very true…..
Red_Phoenix - October 23rd, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Donavan Ried – October 23rd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Well said Donovan. Constructive criticism is the only way we can improve as a club. Ignoring our weaknesses, both perceived and real, is a recipe for disaster filled with pride and arrogance. Benitez’s problem is that he seems to be filled with a lot of pride and arrogance. He also seems extremly petty in his ways. Treatment of Crouch, Keane, benayoun and love for Lucas say it all.
A little character development never hurt anyone let alone a football manager in a game where character makes champions.
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 2:34 pm
of course he has ambitions to manage in england, and i bet he would love to manage liverpool, who wouldnt!! this doesnt mean he will
Warren Bloggs - October 23rd, 2009 at 2:51 pm
I’m afraid Donovan does have a point, Rafa’s tactics have on occasions be actually more harmful then good. The most recent one coming in the form of the Benny-Voronin substitution which bemuses everyone even the die-hard Rafa supporters. However, is this due to his incapabiliities in the transfer market or simply because he has not had the neccesary funds? Well, no doubt that the signings of Reina, Agger, Alonso, Kuyt, Torres, Bennayoun etc etc were no doubt a masterstroke, but, there have been too many dodgy signings which have prevented the club from being at the pinacle of the EPL. Why people comlain about Voronin is beyond me, as although i agree he isn’t a brilliant sub remeber Rafa signed him on a free as he did with Degen as well. Voronin would be good cover just so long as we had another top class striker as back-up. Players such as Degen, Itandje and although it pains me to say it Babel should be sold. I say this not because he isn’t a good player but simply because he does not fit our system simple as, under a manager such as Wenger he would flourish but with Rafa he will lose what should of been a very promosing career. Go back to when the owners first took over at the helm, we signed Torres for £20m, Babel for £11m, Benny for £5m, Voronin and Degen on free’s and in January we signed Skrtel for approx £6m. This seems to me like good investment , the likes of Skrtel, Benny and El Nino have become favourites at Anfield and both Babel and Voronin have played there fare share over the years. Personally, i think it would be devastating to sell Rafa and replace him with Klinsmann as the German is probably the worst example of a manager I can remember. He was not a coach but more of an outside support, while his no.2 took control of the tactics which took the Geman side onto the brink of the final. In Bayern he was a total mess, single handidly making one of the best teams in world football into Europa League strugglers in one, yes ONE season.
Warren Bloggs - October 23rd, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Stick with Rafa for the time being and if or when the time is right then think about changes they may need to be made, not just before a Manchester-Liverpool derby!!
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Where in the Article does it say Liverpool are lining up Klinsmann ?
saif - October 23rd, 2009 at 3:33 pm
CAP FITS FOR KRAFT
Robert Kraft, the American billionaire who came close to buying Liverpool in 2005, has ruled out buying a Premier League club unless a salary cap is brought in.
Kraft, who owns the New England Patriots NFL franchise and the New England Revolution soccer team, said he is put off by the financial structure of English football.
Kraft, in London for Sunday’s NFL clash between Patriots and Tampa Bay Buccaneers, said: “We always look at what’s right for us – I love the Premier League and we probably wouldn’t seriously consider coming in unless there was some sort of salary cap.
“We are involved in the NFL and in Major League Soccer and we are happy to compete where it’s a level playing field.
“We don’t want to be a business where the wallet determines what kind of player you have.”
Kraft said he did not blame the top players for trying to earn as much as possible but that it could create problems with fans, and he dislikes clubs having to sell off their young stars to bigger sides.
“The ideal model is to develop young players and have them come into your system but to then sell them off goes against my grain,” he added.
“Fans don’t want to hear about the money, if you win and do a professional job you will make money.
“But if the money starts taking over and you are paying players fantastic sums sometimes the incentive isn’t there to play hard every day.
“I don’t blame a player for wanting to get paid as much as they can but in the end the greatest rewards in team sports come when great players subjugate their egos to the team.”
Donavan Ried - October 23rd, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Thank you Dom. …. Your are never afraid to point out both side of the arguement.
Donavan Ried - October 23rd, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Red_Phoenix – October 23rd, 2009 at 2:33 pm …… Thank you
Warren Bloggs – October 23rd, 2009 at 2:51 pm ……… ” i think it would be devastating to sell Rafa” …….. I don’t know mate, i’d take £5-7m for him …LOL
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
People need to trust Rafa. Alright were going through a bad patch but we’ll come through it. When Torres, Gerrard and Aquilani are all in the side, and players like Mascherano and Carra regain their form, we WILL be the team to beat. Consider this team – Reina, Johnson, Carra, Agger, Insua, Kuyt, Masch, Aquilani, Benayoun, Gerrard, Torres. On paper at least, this team is alot better than what Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea have to offer. I dunno bout any1 else, but i would prefer a carra-agger partnership to a ferdinand-vidic anyday (ferdinand is finally being exposed as the average defender he is). And in my view, gerrard-torres is the best strikeforce in the world. (Call me biased, but can any1 name a better one?)
Also, when u see Rafa’s win percentage, take into consideration his first year, when he was left with all houlliers s**t, eg biscan, traore, baros, cisse, cheyrou, smicer, diouf, diao etc. We lost between 10-15 games that year? Take that year out of the stats, and rafa’s record would be more impressive.
So back off people, give rafa time. And to all those calling for his head, I bet ye were all singin his praises last year when everything was all rosey? Its times like these that Rafa needs our support most
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 4:32 pm
all this waffle from one nonsense article i’ve got to give it you lot for a non stop stream of fantasy!! all i can say is thank god you lot are not on the board all mangers sign good and bad players……its a circle of life as elton john once sang….one request stop posting silly made up tabloid rumours on here please
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 5:15 pm
You can all write what you want but at the end of the day if you don’t allow the manager to buy his players then don’t criticize him. Let me give you a list of players we missed out on because of indecision or 1-2 million discrepancy:
Simao, Alves, Milito, Vidic, Barry, Silva, Villa, Turner, Shawcross.
Meanwhile, we bought Keane which Rafa did not want. Barry is now doing better than Keane! That’s a fact!
The other youth players which Rafa brought in, he did not work on them. It was Garry Ablett, who did an average job and was replaced.
Think really hard before your criticize Rafa
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Kop King
As much as i back rafa i am still left seething at the inclusion of lucas and the preference of dog kuyt over ryan babel.
isaac hunt - October 23rd, 2009 at 5:41 pm
just media trying to stir.
do you really think liverpool fans would let thm do this
Mark G. - October 23rd, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Some of our supporters are holding Rafa up to unrealistically high standards. Others are bringing up certain items in isolation and then shriek hysterically. They are missing big picture, using a time frame of one game at a time, not seeing forest for the trees. I advocate the opposite.
1. Admit, we were not the favourites for the league championship this year. Amongst the 8 teams that can win the league, we are possibly the weakest financially. We can’t afford a new stadium, our gate take is much lower than Man U’s or Arsenal, we don’t have an oligarch or sheik owners with loads of money. Wishful thinking does not win many championships in professional sports. No money no Barry, Malouda, Vidic, Turner, VdV, Angel di Maria, Lorik Cana, Lee Cattermole, David Silva or Villa. Welcome to Anfield Mr. Kyrgiakos.
2. We are victims of our own success, coming 2nd last year, while missing Gerrard and Torres in many games. That inflated hopes and aspiration faster than the you can infamous beach ball.
3. We started the season with many of our players on the sidelines, or not fully fit. Rather than getting healthier, our squad got sicker. Chelsea, Man U. would bring their strong squad players, we know who sits on our bench.
4. Panic set in, rather than admitting the obvious, lack of resources, some “armchair managers” pointed their fingers at Rafa, the easiest target. As attested by many posts of Aquaman and others, Rafa holds his own when compared to the legends of Liverpool. And he hasn’t got stupid all of the sudden.
5. Rather than supporting the team and waiting for better, healthier fortunes some resorted to “lazy minds” approach, contempt for Rafa. Forgetting, this is not how we do things in Liverpool, devaluing and diminishing our club. Criticism, healthy argument helps, spitting into the face of your manager, it is a road to nowhere.
6. For those that need encouragement, watch the highlights of two Man U games from last year, then Chelsea CL game and Arsenal’ 4:4 game. Fabulous, but also in the last two you can see how we started to leak goals and how we lost the championship last year. Figuring prominently Mascherano, Alonso, Arbeloa, Aurelio, Carragher and the rest of the team. You win as a team you lose as a team. The team needed new players; Johnson is showing his worth so far, Aquilane hopefully will soon.
7. On Sunday we won’t be favoured, but let’s make sure our boys will feel our unity in common cause. United we stand, Divided we fall. Whatever happens against Man U., it is only a one game in a long march to the top. Change of ownership would help, let’s hope.
YNWA
Mark G. - October 23rd, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Isaac Hunt: I can’t believe how negative the Guardian is in the coverage of Liverpool. I bet, they hope, it sells more copies for them.
Mark G. - October 23rd, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Klinsmann, I never thought we would see his name again in context of Rafa’s replacement. Well, never uderestimate death wish among some supporters. The ironic thing is this story, must be concocted by the symbol of low brow journalism, “The Daily Mail”. No logical reason to support Herr Klinsmann for such coveted job. Alas, judging how quickly some jumped into a fray, it still works.
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Donavan Reid
You make some good points i take it you go Anfield on matchday.
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Mark G very good comments.
I would suggest you all read the Tomkins Post on LFCTV now he does talk some sense. See the atest interview with Rafa. some very good points especially the 50 players bit.
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Liverpool will beat Man Utd on Sunday and will go unbeaten for the rest of the season and win the league!!!! Rafa will stay!!!
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 7:33 pm
get klinsmann, steve mcclaren or sven
Mark G. - October 23rd, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Anonymous Oct.23rd 6:59 pm
Thanx. Great read fo all…
Hoogleboogybugleboy - October 23rd, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Mark G. One of the only people on here who talks any sense. I can’t get my head around some of the stuff that gets posted on here.
I cannot believe the drivle. And no Donavan; “You haven’t hurt my feels”.
Mark G. - October 23rd, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Hoogleboogybugleboy:
Thanks, I am blushing like a debutante girl from Toronto, invited to Buckingham Palace for lunch with the Queen…
Warren Bloggs - October 23rd, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Liverpool 3-2 Manchester United
Aquaman - October 23rd, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Great Post Mark G.
I would like to add another similar point if I may.
A large part of why so many people are scared for LFC is the distance that our feelings have fallen. 2 months ago we were all bouncing and singing “We’re gonna win the league”, and now (if our current form continues, God forbid) we will struggle to make the top 4. Obviously this won’t happen and I see us comfortably finishing at least 4th at the end of the season, but things are scary now.
Anyway, as I was saying. The valley seems deeper when you fall from a mountain. After finishing so close to the top last season we all immediately expected to go one better this year. This is not unjustified as our form at the end of the season was THE best in the league. So why shouldn’t this continue?
Unfortunately football happened. Teams wobble. The best do, the worst do more. And as the soaring heights of the mountain of our expectations seem to rise higher and higher, we panic. Now I won’t deny that things are bad, they are not catastrophic.
If we look at the teams who have beaten us in the league (AV, tot, sun, Che), all four of them sit in the top 7 on the table. Three of these games were away (AV was at Anfield), and two were right at the beginning of the season. Now before I get told off for making excuses (which they kind of are), this is not to say that we’ve beenunlucky (We haven’t played well enough in truth). This is to say that we are not in crisis. Remember that we have no draws at this stage which means that we have 3 points per game from teams in positions 9 -20 (obviously we haven’t played them all, but bear with me), and 0 points from teams 1 – 7. If this trend continues (though its very unlikely to never draw in a season) this will give us 72 points. Which is what Arsenal got last year. Granted this is not the title that we all dreamed of, but (as I showed above) Rafa is over performing with the budget he’s given (yeah yeah yeah, bicker all you want).
I for one do not expect this trend to continue and I expect to see us flying high again really soon. I’ll be very surprised if we don’t get at least 80 points this season which (according to the trend) is a safe bet for third at least.
So while everyone bitches and moans about us not winning the title this year, I remind you who it was who gave us that hope. It was Rafa who guided our team to 86 points last year and Rafa who will guide us back up the table this year. The title is not out of reach, but as Rafa often says “It’s too early to talk about the title.”
anonymous - October 23rd, 2009 at 9:52 pm
When Rafa Benítez personally invites me to meet him for lunch at the legendary training ground, Liverpool have just seen their six-game winning streak come to an end in Italy, but things are still looking good. There is no agenda; just a long overdue chance to say hello, and say thank-you for taking the time to write for this site for four years.
And it is still only a few months ago that Real Madrid and Manchester United were thrashed, and a genuine title challenge was mounted.
By the time the meeting takes place, the newspapers are full of ‘crisis’ talk, just months after the best league season that any late-teen Red will have lived through. (The kind of late-teen now spouting off on internet forums about his ineptitude, not that they can conjure such words.)
Inadvertently, I am entering the eye of the storm. Or so I expect. The world is chattering about Benitez and his future, and here I am, about to spend part of the morning and almost the entire afternoon with him, chatting one-to-one about the club we both love.
Melwood has clearly come a long way since the days Bill Shankly turned up to find a glorified flea pit. Space-age facilities, pitches that put the lawns at Hampton Court to shame, and a bold red decor; but all fenced off from the world, and autograph hunters, by the same old breeze block brick wall.
I glance across at the legendary hill, constructed for gruelling trudges up and down, and the target boxes divided into nine squares, each with a number painted, the like of which I recall from pictures of Shankly’s time. But otherwise it’s from another planet, not just another era.
Having been on the Kop for the visit of Lyon, I dread the mood as the final 20 minutes sees a win turn to defeat, and more players limp off. I half expect Rafa to cancel, and for everyone to be in a foul mood; a time for inquests and recriminations.
However, I encounter no such despair; morale seems okay (if, understandably, no-one is performing cartwheels and dancing on tables like the cast of Fame). Admittedly I have no prior experience of the place to compare it with, but I am buoyed by the aura.
I get to see some of the training, but of course, there aren’t a lot of fit senior players out there, and it’s only a short, gentle session after the night before.
Around noon, Rafa greets me warmly for the second time that day, only now I will have his full, undivided attention. We head to his office, and within minutes he’s sketching formations on scraps of loose paper.
Despite the ever-widening criticism, this is a man who, over the previous four seasons, has seen his team average 78 points in the league; or the grand total with which Arsene Wenger won his first title. The team Rafa inherited averaged 62 points in its final two seasons.
This is a man who has raised around £100m in Champions League qualification and progress, and reached two finals.
This is not the ‘70s and ‘80s, when success bred success, as two geniuses held the reins for 24 years, before two other top managers kept things ticking over (and in Dalglish’s case, to a new level of aesthetic brilliance).
This is also not the ’90s, when Graeme Souness, enjoying the last time the club was as relatively rich as its rivals (pre-Premier League boom, pre-United marketing machine, pre-billionaire backers), broke British records on spending to try and get the Reds back to the top, only to turn them into also-rans.
And so I meet Benítez during a bad spell for the club, but a bad three months; not a bad three years, to point to the record of one of his critics this week.
Some more context. At the end of last season, having shown them their best six months in over a decade, Martin O’Neill was being vilified by the Villains. Now he’s great again. Arsene Wenger was being gunned at by Gunners, now he’s back on track. Top managers have bad spells. It happens
Rafa makes it clear that I am here so that he can say thank-you for my efforts over the past five years, and to let me know that he’s impressed by how much I get right about him and his methods; he finds it unusual that someone takes the time and makes the effort.
Of course, this being Rafa, he points out a couple of things I’ve got wrong. (I like this: it makes me feel that he is being totally straight with me; and he’s clearly right about what I got wrong, as later demonstrated when we get into more depth about how the team defends set-pieces than most people will be privy to.)
Equanimous
The word I’d use to describe the manager is ‘equanimous’, which my dictionary notes as ‘mental calmness, composure, and evenness of temper, esp. in a difficult situation’.
If he doesn’t punch the air in victory, he also won’t punch a player in defeat.
But this is not to say that he is not passionate; on several topics he gets very animated. His love for the club is clear. His desire to succeed his clear. His burning ambition to get the most out of what he has at his disposal is clear.
I find him a warm, welcoming man – nothing like the ludicrous ‘cold’ stereotype – and Melwood is the epitome of calming professionalism. Other staff members point out that they’ve seen him give lots of encouragement to players, and certainly offers a human touch.
Yes, the conversation is almost exclusively about football, but his office has enough reminders of his family life outside the game to show that he is not some soulless robot, and his humour is clear. And anyway, he didn’t invite me there to talk about that week’s Strictly Come Dancing, did he?
We spend almost four hours over lunch in his personal meeting room, and afterwards in his office, going through tactics, personnel, and almost anything else you care to mention.
It is such a natural, easy conversation, at times I have to remind myself who I am talking with; and ‘with’ is the right word. At no point does he talk at me. And in person, his English is easier to understand than it is with a microphone thrust in his face. (For the record, I took no notes, nor made any recordings; it was just two men talking football.)
After several diagrams sketched on A4 sheets, he leads me to the canteen and shows me the day’s healthy selection. As I stand trying to decide, Alberto Aquilani taps him on the shoulder to ask about the reserve game later that night. They talk briefly in Italian. The boss turns back, and approves of my choice: paella, which I was pleasantly surprised to find amid the pasta dishes.
Later we discuss the new Italian midfielder: an independent expert had told the club that he would be fit for the end of August, but that ended up being pushed back and back. It was frustrating, but Rafa was very happy with what he was now seeing in training – the lad has vision and technique – even if he obviously still has to adapt to the pace of the English game.
He points out that John Arne Riise (’a good lad’) has just texted him to once again to offer his support, and to say Liverpool have got a real gem in Aquilani.
(I like that a player the manager has sold still texts his old boss; no signs of a lack of affection there, even if Rafa makes it clear that it is obviously not his job to be best mates with his charges.)
It was a difficult summer, Rafa explains, with Alonso determined to leave and Barcelona niggling away at Mascherano.
Time To Go?
We are briefly interrupted at different times by Sammy Lee and Frank McParland, and I am introduced to both: intense, driven men who share Rafa’s desire for success, and the trustworthy sign of a firm handshake.
I’m not sure if the meeting is supposed to last as long as it is, and I keep asking the boss if he has something else to be doing; but he’s taken training, the physios are doing their job, and Rafa isn’t about to knock off early. It may have been a few hours, but it’s only a small part of his working day.
Even so, I can see how eager he is to have the world understand his ideas, especially when ex-players and the vast majority of the media are clearly hostile and keen to misrepresent him; he knows that unlike some of his rivals, he doesn’t have friends in high places, such as Fleet Street, Sky TV, the League Managers’ Association and the FA. (These are my assumptions; he gives no specifics. But it’s not hard to see which managers work the system for their advantage through old pals networks, and which clubs have greater influence in certain areas.)
Whenever I think I’d better leave him in peace, we get onto another subject. Zonal marking pops up. So, too, does Rafa – from his seat, demonstrating positioning, who should be where, against the backdrop of his broad office window’s glare.
This isn’t enough. A DVD from his extensive library is slipped into the machine, and now he’s showing me how what Liverpool deploy is actually a mix of both zonal and man-marking. I am shown who should be where, and what each individual’s job is; how that job changes depending on which foot the taker is using (inswinger/outswinger); and how there is as much personal responsibility as the alternative – everyone knows their job.
Then he takes me, beat by beat, through other teams, and the gross failings of some man-markers, and also points out several players who, despite being labelled man-markers, are marking zones! (men on the posts, and others dotted here and there.) We look at a side who are very successful at defending set-pieces, and he shows me how they defend a similar way to the Reds (and holy cow, they do!); they just happen to have a lot of tall players.
It suddenly occurs to me that if every individual critic of Rafa’s could sit down and have a similar conversation, they’d be converted. At the very least, they’d be a lot wiser.
That wouldn’t mean they’d suddenly feel mistakes still aren’t made: every signing can go bad, every substitution comes with a risk, and so on. You can make the right decisions and get unlucky, and make the wrong decisions and get good fortune.
Stubborn
People inevitably say that Rafa is stubborn, but I don’t know one top manager who doesn’t have the courage of his convictions. Personally, I don’t want a manager who has one set of beliefs one week, and who then changes his mind the next. If you know something works more often than not, you stick with it when it’s not; changing is not the answer.
For example, four years of having either the best, or one of the best, set-piece records (defensively), is to be taken more seriously than a spell of ten games. And anyway, will total man-marking make Insua or Mascherano 6ft 5?
And people will criticise his decisions, such as playing three at the back at Sunderland; ignoring that previous deployments of the system, though infrequent, had proved successful.
We discuss the irony of the boos over removing Benayoun (whom he felt had played well, but run himself to a standstill) when a year earlier, the general consensus was that ‘he wasn’t fit to wear the shirt’.
And of course, there was the issue of confidence. The night before, Liverpool had at last found some of this precious elixir after taking the lead; but as soon as Lyon equalised, you could see it visibly drain away. That happens when things aren’t going your way.
Rafa tells me of Luis Aragonés’ saying ‘You can’t buy confidence in Marks & Spencers’. There is no magic wand, no secret message, no miraculous injection; you can only keep plugging away, doing the right thing, and hope that it changes.
We’ve all seen a striker who can’t score for love nor money, then one goes in off his backside and he’s bubbling again. That same thing can happen with a team; except on top of individual struggles, that undefinable ‘wavelength’ confidence goes askew as well. Everyone is hesitant, in their passing and in their movement.
The same group of players who were passing-and-moving to near-perfection in the second half of last season (even when Alonso was absent) haven’t suddenly forgotten how to play football.
With candour, Benítez admits to some mistakes, particularly in the transfer market, but points out that he had to gamble on cheaper players when his first choices were out of reach.
We discuss how, for example, people accuse him of wasting money on Dossena (’a top pro’, he says, but one who has struggled with the system), yet one reason the Italian isn’t in the side is the emergence of Insua – a very shrewd buy.
Whether or not Dossena would eventually come good (if given playing time) almost becomes moot; Insua, for around £1m, is excelling.
Insua could now well be worth much more than the fee paid for both him and Dossena, but people will only focus on the negative. Although he doesn’t say so, if Insua had cost £7m and Dossena £1m, there’d be no problem. So … what’s the problem? (And that’s before adding Aurelio, a free transfer; three international left-backs, two of whom can also play in midfield, for £8m.)
Later on, as I get the full tour, we pass one lesser known teenage reserve, and Rafa, pulling me to one side so the kid can’t hear, makes it clear that this lad has something about him. “Look out for him.”
Overhaul
One subject that I bring up is the number of players he’s accused of buying.
He grabs the white A4, and draws out lists of how many first team players he inherited that were just not good enough (roughly half). He does the same with the reserve team (almost every player), and then the youth team (every player bar one). It turns out to be around 50 players in total.
So when he is accused of buying far too many players, he points out that he had little choice; that many were bought because they were better than what was already there, even if, with youngsters, you can never guarantee who will make the grade, or how quickly they will progress. And even a 17-year-old needs a professional contract.
He wonders why there is this obsession with all these signings, when every big club stocks its youth and reserve teams with imports and purchases.
My take is this: if you have 50 players at a club (from top to bottom) who you believe are not good enough – and therefore they need to go – you will not replace them sufficiently with 50 signings.
The law of averages say that some new purchases will get injured, some will not settle, some will turn out to be ‘not as advertised’ (i.e. they couldn’t do what was asked of them, or, though well-scouted, were not as good when seen in your team. Some will have been poorly scouted, hence Benítez’s desire to improve that side of things.)
Make 50 signings, and maybe, with a good wind, 25 will be successes of varying degrees, from acceptable to outstanding; far less if you’re talking about teenagers, who can fail to develop or lose focus.
It might take three years to make those 50 signings, and you may still be very short at every level of the club. So to get the next 25, you might need to buy 50 more, by which time some of the successes have left for varying reasons. So it’s a constant process of improvement, hampered by the financial inability to shop for more than the occasional established world-class player.
Before I leave, I get the full guided tour by the boss (known simply as ‘boss’ to every player), and at the front doors, Rafa shakes my hand not once but twice.
He smiles warmly, wishes me well, pats me on the shoulder, and I can’t help but think ‘crisis? What crisis?’
Aquaman - October 23rd, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Gah! I understand the hypocrisy of this statement, but that is a real brick of text. Excellent article, but a link to it on the LFC website with a few quotes may have been friendlier on the rest of us.
Mark G. - October 23rd, 2009 at 11:58 pm
Aquaman:(Related to some Mr. Aquilani possibly, or just praying to him to save our season)
Little footnote on Nemeth, he created a penalty kick last night, in Europe Cup, coverted by an Argentinian player, wonder whether we have a right to recall him in January. It’s 7pm in Toronto, what’s your time, if I may ask?
Warren Bloggs - October 24th, 2009 at 12:00 am
Most of us have already read the article!
Warren Bloggs - October 24th, 2009 at 12:02 am
Midnight Mark G!
Mark G. - October 24th, 2009 at 12:33 am
Warren:
Are you trying to wake me up, or send me to bed?
Aquaman - October 24th, 2009 at 10:32 am
As I write this it is 11:30 AM in sunny South Africa.
anonymous - October 24th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
donovan please open your own site called rafa bashing because i’m sick of reading your bs
KALKITOS - October 25th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Yeah…Donovan Reid has nothing good to say. Or at least I have yet to read any yet.
Donavan Ried - October 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
anonymous – October 24th, 2009 at 5:57 pm ……. PLease post a name so we can at least say that you have the guts enough to stand behind what you have to say,nor not to say as the case maybe …….
KALKITOS – October 25th, 2009 at 11:10 am …….”Yeah…Donovan Reid has nothing good to say. Or at least I have yet to read any yet.” ……..
I do not stand hear and say all is rosey in Rafaland when it is so obviously not, unlike you Rafaites. Nor do i, or will i blame Rafa or the players if they are not at fualt …….
But over the past 12 plus years i have watch Liverpool Fc go from a team that prized quality in it’s players to one that accepts mediocrity though out it team. Worse than that is msot for you younger Supporters are so cuaght up in this “Sound Bite”, “Catch Phaze”, “P.C”, “Buzz Word” socitey that you all accept this, without qyestioning it. Creatating your own “Sound Bites” and “Catch Phazes” like “IN Rafa We Trust” …… and using it as a “Bench Mark” to guage other Liverpool Supporters by ……. If you are willing to accept mediocrity fine. After all it’s a free country, But it is only in recent years that LFC started to accept that mediocrity and those mediocre players and managers……..This as to stop.
Liverpool was once “Feared and Respected” in Europe. Now ……………. we are simplely “Respected”, while teams like Man Utd and now even Chelsea are becoming that which once made LIverpool FC Great ………
If Money was the only guiding factor in which team that a player signs for then Man city would have had Kaka. Instead he turned down the moves to Man city for £100m, Chelsea’s move for him at £73m to instead sign for Real Madrid for £56m ……. Ronaldo,Karim Benzema,Alonso, and soon to come Franck Ribery how has turned down a host of offers to injstead wait a year on the promise from Real Madrid that they will sign him …… Real will not put up with mediocrity, nor will Man utd or Chelsea so why i ask should Liverpool Fc and their Supporters ? ….
Aquaman - October 25th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Donovan: In reply to your above. I agree fully that accepting mediocrity is unacceptable for a club of LFC’s stature. I also don’t doubt for a second that if we were to turn the clocks back 20 years but with the players available now, then Kaka would quite happily sign for us for the 56 mil her was willing to go to Real for. But here’s the thing (and I know that this is boring, but repeatedly saying “The reason it gets bright in the morning is because the sun comes up” doesn’t make it any less true), we do not have the 56 mil to pay, and we haven’t for a long time.
The sad story, in my view, is that the managers and finances have not been good at the same time since Kenny left. When we had the cash, our managers let us down. Now we have the manager (in my opinion, and I know its not yours), but we lack the dosh. My faith in Rafa is based on how well he has coped under the circumstances. As has been frequently reported, even Stoke outspent us (net spend) over the summer. Whether that was Rafa’s choice (I mean the debt is really bad, and something has got to be done sooner or later) or the voices on high, is up for debate in my mind
Strangely, on the flip side of things, I don’t want to have LFC backed by a Man City esque Bajillionaire because it takes away the thing I love most about LFC: their defiance of the odds. I am a young supporter of the club (I was 5 when we last won it), and so I can’t comment on the feeling of the club in the glory days. Additionally I am a foreign supporter and as such I had the luxury of choice in who I support. My dad is a manc and has been all my life, but I rejected his outlook and chose the direct opposite, because there was something in this club that I believed in, and I can’t help feeling it will become corrupted if given infinite wealth.
But anyway, back to the point at hand (Must. Not. Go. Off. On. Random. Tangeants.)
Yes we were feared and respected in the past, and as you say we are now merely respected. But 6 or seven years ago we weren’t even that. The fact that we are respected is thanks to Rafa, and for giving us that much I will trust him. I’m also not one for catch phrases but this one has at least got some meaning behind it.
Donavan Ried - October 25th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
Aquaman – October 25th, 2009 at 12:56 pm ……….I fully accept that it is me and that i sometimes do not explain myself properly. So here goes ……..
What i was trying to say was that some players do not sign just for, or for the money alone. some players sign to play for certain clubs because of the prestige. I was trying to say that although we have prestige in and Through out Europe we he been slowly losing this as a new and younger generation of supporter takes over.
“Yes we were feared and respected in the past, and as you say we are now merely respected. But 6 or seven years ago we weren’t even that” …….
True ……..
Retryboy - December 4th, 2009 at 2:18 am
Rafa’s negative approach is ruining the club we have had enough quality available to win all our games so far. He gets worse every game and his average favourites kuyt and lucas get picked again and again while quality creative players sit on the bench or go on loan. Rafa needs to go before its too late. More quality players in babel, mascherano, nemeth, Eccleston will go the way of keane, alonso, bellamy disillusioned with having a special needs manager. Any half decent manager could do wonders with the squad as it is rafa can’t, get him out and get Mancini in! Rafa is incapable of learning far too stubborn for that people talk about the liverpool way Rafa’s football is the wimbledon way and its nobodys fault except his.