Fulham 3-1 Liverpool Premier League Highlights (Video)

...samlfc.... - October 31st, 2009 at 5:57 pm

Well isn’t that brilliant! another loss and soon another excuse from benitez…..arrg just when we thought we would get out of the mess we were in that happens!!!
2 sending offs, outplayed and dodgey decisions is the reason we lost and Rafa better think about how to put things right forour next game
Fair play to Fulham though! welldone Fulham

Ryan Babel - October 31st, 2009 at 6:00 pm

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Ryan Babel - October 31st, 2009 at 6:01 pm

FFS

Ryan Babel - October 31st, 2009 at 6:01 pm

WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Ryan Babel - October 31st, 2009 at 6:01 pm

aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggg

Red_Phoenix - October 31st, 2009 at 6:11 pm

Red_Phoenix – October 31st, 2009 at 5:45 pm

All that good work against Man U last week spectacularly undone today. Well done Rafa for picking such a STUPID team. Ref didn’t do us a favour either.

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 6:19 pm

Erik Nevland scored the decisive goal as Fulham defeated Liverpool 3-1 at Craven Cottage this afternoon.

Liverpool dominated possession in the first half but it was Fulham that took the lead as Bobby Zamora tapped in a mishit shot by Damien Duff. Fernando Torres equalised for the visitors with a fantastic volley from 20 yards just before half-time before substitute Erik Nevland put the Cottagers back in the lead in the second half.

Things went from bad to worse for the Reds as Philipp Degen was sent off with 11 minutes left to play. It then turned into a catastrophe as Jamie Carragher was shown red two minutes later for a challenge on Zamora before Clint Dempsey delivered a hammer blow in the 88th minute.

The Reds almost found an opening goal in the 19th minute. Dirk Kuyt smashed a low cross along the six yard box as Torres dived to make a connection with the ball. The Spaniard came agonisingly close to getting a touch but couldn’t quite get there.

A cross from Philipp Degen on the right found Yossi Benayoun at the back post. The Israeli international controlled well and hit the ball on the bounce, rattling the crossbar with his shot. Liverpool had a follow-up strike but it hit a crowd of players and came to nothing.

Fulham sprang on the break as Diomansy Kamara played the ball to Damien Duff on the left. The Irish international attempted a shot towards the far corner but didn’t make a great connection, dragging it slightly. Fortunately it was straight into the path of Zamora who had ghosted in at the back post. He made no mistake, slotting the ball into the net from close range, 1-0 to Fulham

The Cottagers’ goal was against the run of play and it rocked Liverpool who found it hard to break down a resolute Fulham defence from this point.

Liverpool equalised just before half-time through Spanish striker Fernando Torres. It was sloppy defending by Fulham who failed to clear a weak header by Andriy Voronin. The ball fell to ‘El Nino’ on the edge of the box who rifled a wonderful right-footed volley beyond Mark Schwarzer into the bottom left-hand corner of the goal.

Roy Hodgson made two changes for the second half, bringing on Erik Nevland and Zoltan Gera to replace Kamara and Duff.

Fulham had a claim for a penalty on the hour mark when Zamora, chasing a long ball forward, had Jamie Carragher on his heels. The Liverpool skipper eased the English forward out of it but then appeared to drag Zamora down as the ball ran through to Pepe Reina.

Rafael Benitez made a curious change minutes later, deciding to withdraw Torres and replace him with Ryan Babel. The Spaniard didn’t look impressed as his number was raised.

Zamora was involved again for Fulham, creating space for himself on the edge of the box. His shot flew over the crossbar but it was good forward play by the Englishman.

Liverpool conceded minutes later following sloppy play by Kuyt. The Dutchman tried to prevent a throw-in and was caught out by Paul Konchesky, the Englishman pinched the ball and attacked the by-line before floating a cross towards the back post. The substitutes combined as Gera headed the ball back across goal and Nevland flicked the ball past Reina and into the back of the net, 2-1 to Fulham.

Degen was shown red in the 79th minute after a lunging tackle on Clint Dempsey. Minutes later and Carragher was also given his marching orders, the Liverpool captain got on the wrong side of Zamora and clearly hauled down the Fulham forward as he bore down on goal.

Fulham took full advantage of the numerical advantage as they ripped through the remnants of the Liverpool defence. Nevland broke at the Reds and threaded a beautiful pass to Dempsey in the left-hand side of the penalty area. The American held his nerve and smashed the ball into the bottom left-hand corner beyond a hapless Reina.

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 6:29 pm

it time for rafa to go i just cannot understand some of his decision.Another game lost to fulham.where do we go from here.he should stop underatin the small side .all we need is 3points that it wether from a weak side or a stong side the 3points is all we need.Let take care of todays match before cham league.what happened to squad that played man u?

Aquaman - October 31st, 2009 at 6:35 pm

This is usually the time when the Rafa supporters disappear into the shadows, ready to pounce the next time we beat mancs. I will not be doing so (even though I still believe that Rafa is the man for the job). Yes, todays result was atrocious and Rafa makes it very difficult for us to defend him sometimes. It also doesn’t help that we ended up with 9 men while Fulham had 12 (13 if you include the home support).

The only reason that I can see for his phenomenally understrength line-up is that he has an eye on the Champions league match in midweek. Now before we all start jumping up and down screaming “We don’t want big ears! We want the premiership!” and “Rafa only cares about the Champion’s League and not the premiership” hear me out.

Rafa knows that if we bow out of the Champions League, then things could get very, very sticky for us financially. Before the match we still stood with a chance at the premiership crown (especially with the top teams dropping so many points to low table teams), we certainly weren’t out of it, and I still believe we aren’t now. Last year we sat 6 points behind having played 2 more than united and we closed it to 2 points in the end (correct me if I’m wrong). That was a far greater comeback than what is being asked of us now.

In the champion’s league, however, if we lose in midweek and Fiorentina win, then we’re pretty much dead. The champion’s league is by far the most lucrative tournament we enter every year, in terms of financial gain, and losing out on this cash could very easily sink us. If we had beaten Fulham 5 – 0 with all of our stars in the lineup and then lost to Lyon (because of fatigue), we could very easily have end up in financial meltdown. In this case Rafa had to sort out his priorities and, if we are indeed in such a dire financial predicament, then I applaud his courage in making those difficult decisions when he knew the fans would be irate.

I maintain that my expectations for this year are: a top 4 finish, Q-finals at least in CL, and a good FA cup run. This is what I expect at the start of every year. I may get excited and dream of winning every season, but I only EXPECT trophies when we’re in the final run-in.

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 6:36 pm

Mark Schwarzer -7 – Could do little about Torres’ superb leveller, and handled well.

John Paintsil – 6.5 – Some hurried clearances put his side under pressure, but covered pretty well.

Aaron Hughes – 7 – Covered the space which Torres craves well, and led by example.

Brede Hangeland – 7 – Aerially he was utterly dominant, as expected. May have done better for Torres’ equaliser but had a good game.

Paul Konchesky – 6.5 – Found life tough when Degen and Kuyt linked up, and went to ground too much. Going forward was better, and his raid from left-back created Nevland’s winner.

Clint Dempsey – 7.5 – The one man in the Fulham midfield who was given license to get forward regularly. Sealed the win with a cool late finish.

Chris Baird – 7 – Understated work in the midfield, did the dirty jobs with no fuss.

Jonathan Greening – 7 – Saw precious little of the ball, but put a shift in and showed the defensive side to his game.

Damien Duff – 6.5 – Caused problems roaming from flank to flank, creating Zamora’s goal with a neat cross, a shame for Fulham that he was withdrawn at half-time.

Bobby Zamora – 8 – Scored a simple opening goal, and was very much Fulham’s focal point, despite a wrist injury. May have added to his tally before the end.

Diomansy Kamara – 6 – Very quiet, unsurprisingly replaced at half-time.

SUBSTITUTES

Erik Nevland – 7.5 – A half-time replacement for Kamara, the Norwegian was far more of a threat, and picked up the winning goal with a close-range finish.

Zoltan Gera – 7.5 – Excellent after his introduction at the break. Set up Nevland’s goal with a neat header.

Dickson Etuhu – N/A

LIVERPOOL

Pepe Reina – 6 – Was a spectator for much of the game, required only to field routine balls and distribute the ball. Beaten by both of Fulham’s meaningful efforts on goal.

Philipp Degen – 4 – If Glen Johnson is an attacking full-back, Degen is even more so. Defensively very suspect, and his poor positional play was exploited with balls into the channels, but created chances with his forays forward. A late red card was perhaps harsh, but he should not have put himself in that position.

Jamie Carragher – 5 – Liverpool were able to play a high line, meaning the centre-backs saw lots of the ball, could maybe have used it better. Dismissed late on for a professional foul – karma for last week perhaps?

Sotiris Kyrgiakos – 7 – Competed well with Zamora, though looked a little square for his goal. Nevland offered another physical threat, but the Greek defender did well.

Emiliano Insua – 6 – Was slow to react as Zamora opened the scoring, but looked a lot more confident on the ball.

Dirk Kuyt – 6.5 – Put in some dangerous crosses from the right, amid his usual blood and guts display. Faded towards the end, though was unlucky to see his efforts to keep the ball present Konchesky with the chance to set up Fulham’s second goal.

Lucas – 6.5 – A very good first half, demanding the ball and using it well. He looks confident at the moment, though at times could be a bit more adventurous.

Javier Mascherano – 7 – Covered the space in midfield well and spread the play to both flanks. A shame he offers little goal threat, as he takes up some useful positions.

Yossi Benayoun – 8 – Always lively, he drifted across the midfield and was involved in everything. Rattled the bar in the first half, and always looked the most likely to conjure up something special.

Andriy Voronin – 5.5 – Missed a presentable early chance. Got into some good positions but was wasteful, and his set-piece delivery was inconsistent.

Fernando Torres – 7.5 – You cannot keep him down, one chance in the first half, one clinically dispatched volley. Lasted less than 20 minutes of the second half before being replaced, and Liverpool’s threat instantly diminished.

SUBSTITUTES

Ryan Babel – 6 – Introduced for Torres just after the hour, but had little or no impact.

Daniel Ayala – N/A

Nathan Eccleston – N/A

Aquaman - October 31st, 2009 at 6:39 pm

Aquilani4Goals, seriously, stop posting articles from outside! Give us links or something shorter! Its really difficult to have a discussion when you inject pages and pages of stuff we could have found and read ourselves.

Your own comments only, please!

Red_Phoenix - October 31st, 2009 at 6:39 pm

Shows Rafa doesn’t learn from his mistakes and places far more importance on the Champions League. I hope his gamble for the Lyon game pays off because it was a demoralising loss today.

Why not play Yossi behind Torres instead of Voronin?

Why not leave Voronin out all together? Would hav even preferred Dossena on left midfield since Aurelio wasn’t around.

Hope we stay in Champions League. If we get knocked out of that, barring Rafa’s sverance pay, I see no reason why Rafa shouldn’t be sacked

Aquaman - October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 pm

because my above post has now been buried beneath Auilani4goals random outside article, I repost it here:

This is usually the time when the Rafa supporters disappear into the shadows, ready to pounce the next time we beat mancs. I will not be doing so (even though I still believe that Rafa is the man for the job). Yes, todays result was atrocious and Rafa makes it very difficult for us to defend him sometimes. It also doesn’t help that we ended up with 9 men while Fulham had 12 (13 if you include the home support).

The only reason that I can see for his phenomenally understrength line-up is that he has an eye on the Champions league match in midweek. Now before we all start jumping up and down screaming “We don’t want big ears! We want the premiership!” and “Rafa only cares about the Champion’s League and not the premiership” hear me out.

Rafa knows that if we bow out of the Champions League, then things could get very, very sticky for us financially. Before the match we still stood with a chance at the premiership crown (especially with the top teams dropping so many points to low table teams), we certainly weren’t out of it, and I still believe we aren’t now. Last year we sat 6 points behind having played 2 more than united and we closed it to 2 points in the end (correct me if I’m wrong). That was a far greater comeback than what is being asked of us now.

In the champion’s league, however, if we lose in midweek and Fiorentina win, then we’re pretty much dead. The champion’s league is by far the most lucrative tournament we enter every year, in terms of financial gain, and losing out on this cash could very easily sink us. If we had beaten Fulham 5 – 0 with all of our stars in the lineup and then lost to Lyon (because of fatigue), we could very easily have end up in financial meltdown. In this case Rafa had to sort out his priorities and, if we are indeed in such a dire financial predicament, then I applaud his courage in making those difficult decisions when he knew the fans would be irate.

I maintain that my expectations for this year are: a top 4 finish, Q-finals at least in CL, and a good FA cup run. This is what I expect at the start of every year. I may get excited and dream of winning every season, but I only EXPECT trophies when we’re in the final run-in.

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 6:47 pm

now we have seen what vorronin can do 4 liverpool fc is time to kick him out,babel out, now is pacheco and eccleston i think the lad is desent enough

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 6:49 pm

Rafa Benitez’s future at Liverpool has become even more cloudy following Fulham’s determined 3-1 win at Craven Cottage. Liverpool picked up two red cards along the way as Erik Nevland’s clever goal proved to be enough for Fulham to grab all three points.

Bobby Zamora got things going for the home side in the first half, but his strike was quickly cancelled out by a stunning Fernando Torres goal. Torres, though, was taken off in the second half, much to his chagrin. It was all Fulham from there as Liverpool struggled to mount any serious attacks on Mark Schwarzer’s goal.

After Dirk Kuyt slid to keep a ball in play in the second half, Paul Konchesky gladly capitalized on the opportunity and crossed in, only for the ball to find itself at the heels of Erik Nevland, who cleverly backheeled past Pepe Reina to make it 2-0.

Within the span of three minutes of each other, both Philipp Degen and Jamie Carragher received red cards, leaving Rafa’s side with nine men on the pitch. Degen went in late, hard, and from the side of Clint Dempsey, while Jamie Carragher mimicked his own last man challenge on Michael Owen from last week, earning himself a much deserved red.

Clint Dempsey rounded off the scoring for Fulham just three minutes from time, and when the fourth official announced four minutes of added time it was clear that Rafa Benitez just wanted to get out of there.

Liverpool’s loss comes just when many pundits predicted a revival at the club, and Rafa Benitez has a lot to figure out if he wants to keep his job.

Aquaman - October 31st, 2009 at 6:54 pm

Aquilani. Please. I am begging you now. I’m glad that this one is at least short. But, seriously, stop. If you’re not going to stop at least let me know that you have heard that I am unhappy.

The comments section is meant for us to discuss our opinions on the football. Tell us what you think, not what others think. If you have an article which backs up your argument, then fine. post a link. We’d be glad to read it. But I’m begging you don;t drown us in text that we can read if we spend 2 minutes on google.

Retryboy - October 31st, 2009 at 6:54 pm

What gets on my nerves more than anything is seeing the players that aren’t fit to wear the shirt get the nod ahead of great young talent. Pacheco has more creativity in his little toe than voronin has in his whole body, darby is better than degen and ayala better than kyrgiakos was saying that when he signed those players and 2 years later still saying it. I know nemeth is getting minutes in athens doesn’t do anything for us now though does it? Then he takes off torres, benayoun, kuyt he really doesn’t care about the epl you can guarantee if this was champions league half the players missing would have played!

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 6:54 pm

cant we win fulham without torres and gerard?we should put up a desent squad without vorronin and babel

Aquaman - October 31st, 2009 at 7:00 pm

While I see your point on the youngsters, I don’t think you see my point on the CL. If we lose to Lyon in midweek it can have far dire consequences to the future of our club than losing to Fulham does.

Even though I understand its ridiculous to suggest this, I propose that we lay off the judgement until after the Lyon game. If we lose that to, then Rafa may even lose me as a supporter.

Aquaman - October 31st, 2009 at 7:01 pm

Sorry, above was meant as a reply to Retryboy

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 7:04 pm

I have heard you mr aquaman,When I post article by other writers ,I want other people to read their comment about the match today okay.Just send your comment a stop worrying urself about mine okay….

Red_Phoenix - October 31st, 2009 at 7:08 pm

Aquaman – October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 pm

‘If we had beaten Fulham 5 – 0 with all of our stars in the lineup and then lost to Lyon (because of fatigue), we could very easily have end up in financial meltdown. In this case Rafa had to sort out his priorities and, if we are indeed in such a dire financial predicament, then I applaud his courage in making those difficult decisions when he knew the fans would be irate.’

I hope you know that if we do proceed in the Champions League, this rotation policy and bizzare decision making is going to be a regular occurence. So there may be a few more days like this to come. Our destiny in the league is in tatters but hopefully by Christmas we’d have clawed back some points. That’s our only hope, but i bet if we do get back, Rafa will screw it up again!

Aquaman - October 31st, 2009 at 7:09 pm

I’m not asking you to stop showing us articles that you’d like us to read. I’m very glad to and I’m happy that you’re taking the time to find them for us. What I am saying is that it is very difficult to keep track of a conversation when replies get buried under pages of text.

If you post a link and maybe a quote or 2 to whet the appetite, then we’ll all get eh information just as easily, and those of us in a debate will not have points missed or buried. All I ask is that you bear this in mind when you post.

I understand that it is your right and your choice to do as you will, and I will not comment any further (well, I can’t promise anything except that I will try).

Mark G. - October 31st, 2009 at 7:14 pm

It is a very hard day for us, partly because the win over Man U., raised our expectations. Rafa may have decided that he had no choice to but to bet on Champions League to bring the money that we need to strengthen the squad in the near future. It backfired in a big way. It is up to the owners, to decide whether they want the take the best offer they can get for the club, or take their chances in a season that threatens to unravel.
There is an opprortunity to let Rafa go to Real Madrid, they have been after him for a very long time. They would take over Rafa’s contract, and pay LFC some fee. Otherwise, I still hope he will stay and bring us to the top,. Aquaman’s hopes for this year, are what I would be happy with this season. 4th in the league, and quarterfinals of the CL. Remember, It is often the darkest before the dawn. The injured players, are returning, Aquilani is almost ready and we should return to form. Stop talking about the league championship, it is unrealistic and enjoy every game. Hope we will see the the last of the Yanks soon, they are behind the sad deteriorarion of our paper thin squad. YNWA

Aquaman - October 31st, 2009 at 7:17 pm

Red_Phoenix: I feel that you are being a little harsh on Rafa’s rotation policies but I do see your point. Unfortunately I don’t think that we have a choice. With the way our finances are (supposedly) hanging, failure to proceed in the CL can directly equate to a lack of transfer budget in the summer and then the downward spiral begins.

I remind you again that this Rafa who you say will “screw it up again” is the same Rafa who brought us the highest points total we’ve had in the last 20 years. Rafa doesn’t deliberately sabotage us. He’s a real thinker and everything he does has a reason if you sit and think about it. Not always a good reason but nothing he does is random or deliberately detrimental to the club.

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 7:18 pm

Now where do we go from here,Looking forward to another away win or defeat at lyon?despite all odds and injuries with our player.A good manager should be able to come up with good results.we should put the youngsters in the reserve team in the line of fire to boost there confidence.the like of nemeth ,pacheco,darby,david amoo etc.In place of vorronin,babel,kuyt too old sloppy and not good enough.It is now clear that we need some great signing during the january transfer window.Rafa listen carefully,do away wit vorronin ,babel,dossena,kuyt..and bring in young and talented players okay..

Aquaman - October 31st, 2009 at 7:21 pm

Great post, Rob. I agree fully on a number of your points. Hope to hear more from you. Why don’t you register? That way we’ll always know it’s you. I’m certainly looking forward to hearing more from you.

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 7:24 pm

there is no need to cry over a dead cow,Rafa keep learning and never come to the knowledge of the truth.let the truth be told ,we need to bring in some talented and quality players in order for us to qualify for next champions league,and come up with a silver wear this season..RAFA DO THE RIGHT THING…WHETHER WE HAVE MONEY FOR TRANSFER OR NOT JUST DO THE RIGHT THING..UP LIVERPOOL..

Retryboy - October 31st, 2009 at 7:25 pm

Did post my comments before yours aquaman just really bad connection using my phone. Can see the lyon game is a must win but every game is after a start like ours you have to pick your strongest line-up for every game and then wednesday assess the fitness of the players and do the same again. If he had trusted youth in the carling cup for the last 2 seasons we would have plenty of options. the financial implications of not finishing in the top four would be even more disastrous and to withdraw torres! He was disgusted. Remember he did it a few seasons ago can’t remember who against we were 2-1 down european game coming up and he took off gerrard its just crazy. Keep hoping he has seen that certain players aren’t good enough and trust the young ones that are but he stands by the poor players and ignores the quality time and time again.

Red_Phoenix - October 31st, 2009 at 7:26 pm

Aquaman – October 31st, 2009 at 7:17 pm

What I mean that he’ll screw it up again is that when we get near enough to draw level or get ahead of our rivals, Rafa will make curious decisions that cost us the game or we draw because of the Champions League or what I think is his arrogance against ‘lesser teams’. And it happened last year in our highest points tally for 20 years.

...samlfc.... - October 31st, 2009 at 7:26 pm

Why get rid of Kuyt? sure right wing isn’t his best position but he can play striker whether as back up to Torres or playing alongside him and Kuyt is usually the one who scores our most important games but Aquilani4goals i will agree with you when you say put some youngsters into the squad to boost confidence as thats what they need…confidence and i’m sure they would do better than the fringe players we have now!
I don;t know if other people will agree with me on this but hasn’t Lucas raised his game alittle! i think he is playing ok now

Aquaman - October 31st, 2009 at 7:44 pm

Retryboy:
Fair enough about Carling Cup. Rafa seems to use it more for the fringe players than the up and coming youngsters, which is both good and bad. I agree that it would probably be best for youngsters only.

Again true that finishing outside the top 4 would be disastrous, but our current form won’t continue long enough for that to be a concern. I’m sure of it. Once we (finally) get our full strength squad playing again then we’ll get back to winning 4-0 week in and week out.

His substitutions were quite bizarre, but for the CL I can understand. 1 game in a season of 38 is less of a risk than 1 in 6. Rafa’s already missing so many players that he probably felt that he couldn’t risk losing Torres or Yossi. In which case I understand. Also we got to see Babel move from doing nothing on the wing to doing nothing as a striker like so many people have been pining for. However everything backfired after the 2 reds which is not surprising.

Red_Phoenix:
Ah, I see. Sorry got the wrong end of the stick there.

As far as his arrogance against lesser teams, I think you may be right. I remember Portsmouth last year. Even though we won, starting 6 defenders is a little insane.

However I think he has learned from last year (despite what many people say) and has been a lot aggressive against the smaller teams this year. 4-0 to stoke. 6-1 to Burnley were the sort of games we’d get 0-0 last year. But both of those results came when we had a full squad at our disposal. Which we are pretty far away from now.

As for our weak squad, I blame the finances (as usual).

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 7:46 pm

In football no matter what ,all we want to see is good results.And rafa was unable to do that today.Fulnam have their injuries problems as well let not use that as an excuse….

isaac hunt - October 31st, 2009 at 7:52 pm

ok today was very dissapointing and i was going mad when torres was taken off(if he wasnt injured) but realistically we were never going to win the league this year.
a club will never be successful unless it is run right from top to bottom. i dont blame rafa for our poor squad but today he must take all of the blame. he should have gone for a more exciting formation and played babel up top with torres with benayoun behind them and played with only one defensive mid. he should of gone for broke from the start. im not going to say RAFA OUT! like the morons do because if you looked at our team today only 1 player woulg get into man u, chelseas or arsenals team. thats torres and where the fuck would we be without him?

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 7:59 pm

thank samlfc for your comment.About kuyt i know he is trying,but his poor decision today gave fulham the second goal.He should have allow the ball to go to throwin instead of givin fulham opportunity for the second go.Now what do you guys think about the line up.RAFA GOT THis WRONG AS WELL,benyoun should have being a supportin torres instead of voronin.why not playing babel on the right side of the wing and bench voroning

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 8:03 pm

isaac hunt thank for ur comment RAFA SHOULD TAKE THE BLAME FOR LIVERPOOL POOR PERFORMANCE AGAINT FULHAM

isaac hunt - October 31st, 2009 at 8:08 pm

i like kuyt because he will always give 100% for the badge. but he is very weak technically and will never come up with a moments of brilliance when needed. hes a good player when we play at home to burnley but when we need him away to teams like fulham he rarely delivers. to put it one way there are many better right wingers in the premiership than him.

Aquaman - October 31st, 2009 at 8:11 pm

A good post isaac hunt.

As I said above I can sympathize with Rafa about the reasoning behind his decisions, but that does not make them right. You are correct. Rafa is to blame for the formation, the roles given to each player, and the substitutions. These three things did more to harm us than help in this game and so I agree.

Retryboy - October 31st, 2009 at 8:17 pm

To all of those that actually think the players missing were injured today consider these coincidences… The same back four that played at arsenal…voronin played the whole game in the same role against arsenal…babel came on for the last half hour in the single striker role against arsenal… Lot of coincidences that point to the fact that he was always looking beyond fulham to lyon and that torres was only ever going to play 60 minutes… Last minute fitness tests who is he kidding!

isaac hunt - October 31st, 2009 at 8:24 pm

to put it another way our team today was full of mid table players. how many of them could of won us the match today? 1 or 2? torres + benayoun(maybe)? you look at the other teams and they have 4 or 5! arsenal have van persie,fabregas,arshavin,walcott and even vemaelen. chelsea have about 6 and so do man u(even thogh they didnt last week!!!!). i dont like to belive that we are a 2 man team (gerrard + torres) but it certainly looks like it. ok last week we won without gerrard but nobody else would have scored that goal which torres did. it is obvious to see we need new wingers but when we have a fully fit first 11 then we can beat anyone. believe me i hate saying this but concentrate on 4th for the league and try to win the champions league rafa. i think we actually underestimate how good torres is! to be honest he deserves to be at a club winning trophies or a club going places and at the moment he is at a club that is neither of them.

isaac hunt - October 31st, 2009 at 8:28 pm

to be fair retryboy you may be 100% right. please can you apoloise about your sam allardyce comment and i might cosider you to be a true red!!!

isaac hunt - October 31st, 2009 at 8:30 pm

apoligise

kopman - October 31st, 2009 at 8:33 pm

I agree with aquaman, people are saying they want rafa out but what could any other manager of done today?

Everyone keeps saying hes making mistakes but he knows what he is doing and these people dont if they did why dont you all send your c.v to anfield im sure they would sack rafa to take you lot on.

look we had injuries ALOT of injuries, fulham played well and thats it.

Yes he took nando off early. why? coz nando signalled that he wanted to come off should he of played him even though nando asked to come off?

Benayoun and kuyt came off yes but look we was losing coz none of our players where ontop of there game today so why do you think the game would of changed if they stayed on?

We have the champs leasue this week and you lot would of still been on rafas back if we won today and lost to lyon coz we got players injured or made injuries worse. The champs league is important yes so is the league but we cant risk losing 2 rafa did the right thing today , like i said if you lot knew better you would be the manager at anfield.

Aquaman nce post mate you read my mind.

isaac hunt - October 31st, 2009 at 8:45 pm

kopman

im not having a go at benitez and i know it isnt his fault our squad is so poor.

“these people dont if they did why dont you all send your c.v to anfield im sure they would sack rafa to take you lot on” – grow up mate.

do you not agree that if we went and attacked more we would have had a better chance of winning the game. yes fulham are a good side and it is a hard place to go but to say he did everything right today is just stupid! we lost end of mate!!

isaac hunt - October 31st, 2009 at 8:53 pm

anonymous – October 31st, 2009 at 8:43 pm

4. Insua – decent squad player but not a LFC first choice full back. Rafa should give the youth players a chance.

the youth players musnt be good enough. you can just expect rafa to throw 3 or 4 players in that arent good enough. please can you name them because i certainly cant. spearing and plessis were poor in midweek. kelly is the only real promising player ive seen and he did get his chance against lyon.

dave - October 31st, 2009 at 9:05 pm

just been to watch the match krygiakos,mascherano and benayoun all played well.lucas had a good first half.it was always going to be tough with our injury list.degen and voronin should never play again,these are two of liverpools worst ever players,got them on free transfer’s so any money will do to get rid.i cant understand why rafa does not give a chance to the youngsters more lkie eccleston and pacheco,i actually thought when ecclestone came on i thought we would at least get a draw,he is totally different to what we got and after seeing him in action for the reserves i think it’s time he made the step up.

dave - October 31st, 2009 at 9:07 pm

and everyone who keep’s complaining about rafa taking off torres,he is not fully fit,you morons

RaNE - October 31st, 2009 at 9:10 pm

1. Diego Cavalieri
2. Glen Johnson
4. Alberto Aquilani
5. Daniel Agger
8. Steven Gerrard
9. Fernando Torres
10. Andriy Voronin
11. Albert Riera
12. Fabio Aurelio
15. Yossi Benayoun
16. Sotirios Kyrgiakos
18. Dirk Kuyt
19. Ryan Babel
20. Javier Mascherano
21. Lucas Leiva
22. Emiliano Insua
23. Jamie Carragher
24. David Ngog
25. Pepe Reina
26. Jay Spearing
27. Philipp Degen
28. Damien Plessis
29. Krisztian Nemeth
30. Charles Itandje
31. Nabil El Zhar
32. Stephen Darby
34. Martin Kelly
36. Steven Irwin
37. Martin Skrtel
38. Andrea Dossena
39. Nathan Eccleston
40. Daniel Sanchez Ayala
41. Martin Hansen
42. Peter Gulacsi
43. Dean Bouzanis
44. David Martin
45. Mikel San Jose Dominguez
46. David Amoo
- Robbie Threlfall
- Francisco Duran
- Daniel Pacheco
- Victor Palsson
- Lauri Dalla Valle
- Vitor Coutinho Flora
- Emmanuel Mendy
- Nikola Saric
- Vincent Lucas Weijl
- Christopher Oldfield
- Chris Mavinga
- Alex Kacaniklic
- Christopher Buchtmann
- Zsolt Poloskei
- Gerardo Alfredo Bruna Blanco
- Jordy Brouwer
- Andras Simon

WHO SAID PAPER THIN SQUAD!?

taken from http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/squad/

kopman - October 31st, 2009 at 9:15 pm

isaac i wasnt singling any one person out, yes i agree if we attacked more maybe MAYBE we could of taken a point or 3. When i said about people sending c.v in to anfield all i was saying is that rafa obviously knows what he is doing otherwise he wouldnt be at our club, people are slating him to death but they couldnt know what he is thinking but he knows what hes doing so that statement was just telling people to calm down its my opinion and just coz i said something sarcastic i dont think that gives you the right to tell me to grow up i listened to everyone elses views and i had a lighthearted jibe about a c.v thats it.

kopman - October 31st, 2009 at 9:16 pm

just telling people to relax nothing more we have had bad luck before its just a bad run nothing more

isaac hunt - October 31st, 2009 at 9:27 pm

anonymous – October 31st, 2009 at 9:04 pm

i agree with everyting you say about the squad and agree that voronin should never play for liverpool(fuck me i could do better!). remember though we dont actually know how good those players are. how do you know darby is better then degen?. rafa sees them every day so i think it is not right to say “play pacheco and nemeth and darby and eccleston” etc. they should get more competitive games but unless youve seen them you cant make judgement.

isaac hunt - October 31st, 2009 at 9:35 pm

ok sorry kopman im just a bit pissed off with everything at the moment! i can tell you are a proper fan and you will always back rafa and the team (like me). but i was just frustrated with rafa today! im not tryin to be the manager but if we would have played like this,

—————–torres—-ecclestone(if rafa thinks he is ready)

babel————benayoun————–kuyt

then we may have got beat but at least we would have attacked more and probably looked more dangerous.

dave - October 31st, 2009 at 9:36 pm

reina

johnson carragher agger insua

mascherano lucas

kuyt gerrard aquilani

torres

subs;cavalieri,kelly,skrtel,aurelio,benayoun,babel,ngog

i think this will be the strongest liverpool line up

isaac hunt - October 31st, 2009 at 9:37 pm

having a joke of a ref doesnt help either!!

isaac hunt - October 31st, 2009 at 9:37 pm

off to drown the sorrows anyway!!!!

bungii - October 31st, 2009 at 9:40 pm

for fuks sake i cant stand Liverpool loosing weeks in weeks out.. the point is if Rafa leaves who is gonna take the job right now we are looking horrible as a squad now. if a new coach comes its gonna take time to build a new squad and that includes a shit loads of cash aswell which is not gonna come out of the american owners. hmmm i know some ppl are gonna want Muriniho but what makes youz fool think he is gonna leave Milan half way thru the season to join Liverpool. One person i am thinking about now is Gerrard hullier,,,godd at least the squad selection he had was doing much better then what we have now. Dont forget it was actully the group of players that played in 2005 Champions league was a squad Gerrard Hullier build. At least those games were much more exciting to watch bak in the dayz and the team had a lot more confident as a whole wasnt just a one man squad like we have right now..PLSSSS PLSSSSSS IF RAFA GOES, I WANT GERRARD HULLIER BAK

Ryan LFC - October 31st, 2009 at 10:10 pm

Can someone please explain to me why Benitez has got rid of players such as Keane, Bellamy, Crouch, Arbeloa, Finnan ect yet continues to persist with players such as Voronin, Degen, Dosenna, Lucas ect. He had reported offers for Voronin, Lucas and Dosenna yet chose to keep them, WHYYYYYY!!!!

bod - October 31st, 2009 at 10:11 pm

Just watched the highlights on (Irish) TV. Hmm, hard to know what to make of it. We had a huge amount of possession during the first half and were quite unlucky to concede a goal against the run of play. The big Greek and Degen looked a little short of match fitness.

The less said about the second the better. As for the red cards; I cant see us getting any joy from the FA, and they will probably stand. We were always going to suffer with 9 men on the pitch. Benayoun, looked seriously pissed off with Rafa when he was taken off. It was the kind of look that said ‘why the hell are you taking me off when I can change the game’.

Ronnie Whelan gave the post match analysis. He reckons that the bold Rafa is only focused on the Champions League, hence some of the substitutions. It may be a fair opinion considering the league title may be a wee bit our reach at this stage.

Lets hope we can go on a run now, in both the Premiership and Champions League.

Red_Phoenix - October 31st, 2009 at 10:21 pm

dave – October 31st, 2009 at 9:36 pm

Aquilani ahead of Lucas and Benayoun on the left I think you’ll find is stronger. I trust Rafa will go with this team because he loves Kuyt and cant keep Benayoun out of the team. They are also senior to Lucas and I think are better quality

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 10:27 pm

it all about making the right decision at the right time that’s the xteristic of a quality manager.RAFA sometime lack the it

Aquilani4goals - October 31st, 2009 at 10:56 pm

lets face it we are off the league title

Donavan Ried - October 31st, 2009 at 11:20 pm

First things first …….
will everyone posting “anonymous” please post with a name so that we can see just who is posting what …. Thank you

Did say that Rafa would all favor winning the Champions League over the prem’

Ok i get the torres sub, But the Benayoun sub can only be explained by Rafa trying to save him for the Lyon Game ……..

“im not having a go at benitez and i know it isnt his fault our squad is so poor.”…..

5 gonig 6 years on this has resemblance to the Gérard Houllier squad ……. So who is responsible for put this current squad together???……… One anwser Rafa …….

Just how long can he, or some of you keep making excuses for him

Donavan Ried - November 1st, 2009 at 2:07 am

anonymous – October 31st, 2009 at 6:53 pm ……. It’s always down to the owners……. Rafa has had the time and the money to build this team ……..
He should have shipped Babel,Voronin,Degen,Dossena,Itandje,Lucas,Plessis,and maybe two more last transfer window and brought in another striker, or even traded Alonso for Huntelaar,VDV and maybe some cash …….

He could have maybe gotten Podolski fo £9-£11m cash two seasons age from Bayern along with Bastian Schweinsteiger on a free …..

He as had pently of opportunity to improve the squad, but his choices have been poor ……..

He has like any other manager the opportunity to take players on loan ……

But the main thing is the owners do not pick the team,the tactics of fromation. This is all down to Rafa ……

colden - November 1st, 2009 at 2:14 am

Yes I’m gutted at today’s result & our season so far, but it’s unfair to pin everything on the manager. Finances, owners, injuries, poor form by several players & poor decisions by Rafa have all contributed.

Looking at today’s game, we outplayed Fulham for most of the 1st half, but lost our way after their second goal. We were hit hard with injuries – Johnson, Agger, Aurelio, Gerrard, Aquilani, & possibly Riera would all get into our strongest eleven. Then we also had Kelly, Skrtel, Ngog & El Zhar out. Just add a goalkeeper, and that’s a pretty good team that we had injured.

One of the previous posts was correct – any team would miss that number of quality players. We had 3 of our strongest back 4 injured, and then 2 more sent off !!

The decision to sub Torres had the Lyon game in mind, but Rafa’s also got to be concerned that Gerrard could be out for a while, and doesn’t want the same to happen to Torres. Once we went 2-1 down today, I think the attitude was that the most we could get from the game was 1 point, and it was more important to ensure our major players were ok for the Lyon game, hence Benayoun & Kuyt off.

Now the rant! Babel was superb for Holland under 21s, but has never shown it for LFC, and despite the claims that he has been played out of position, a good player can play anywhere (just ask Gerrard). Voronin tries, but hasn’t got it. Same with Degen. These 3 are not good enough for a Liverpool squad, and should be sold. Babel is young enough to come good, but I feel he’s had enough chances & doesn’t appear able to take them.

I watch the Reserves regularly & can’t understand why Pacheco didn’t get into the Carling cup squad. He is a creative player, just what we need to make something happen in tight games. Anyone seeing his goals from free kicks this season would agree – he stays behind after training to practice them, and it shows. Can’t understand why he doesn’t at least make the bench, especially when we have so many injuries. Better using an 18 year old, rather than a useless ‘has-been’ like Voronin.

Let’s hope we can regroup & get some of the players back for midweek, and they give us a performance that helps us forget today’s result. At times like this we need to keep backing the team and the manager. Let’s reserve judgement until we have a few of the injured players back, and let’s not forget last week’s performance.

Red_Phoenix - November 1st, 2009 at 2:54 am

colden – November 1st, 2009 at 2:14 am

The problem with last week’s game against united is that we’ve lost the momentum. You’re only as good as your last game

Mark G. - November 1st, 2009 at 3:20 am

Five steps strategy to improve Liverpool FC.
1. I suggest Rafa to be replaced by a faith healer, who can make all the injuries go away. With all the regulars in, we will be in a much better shape.
2. Pray to the higher powers to replace the current owners with someone with deep pockets. There is no crisis that a few new good players would not solve.
3. Get Rafa some money to buy players, like Mata, Silva, Villa, Shawcross for start. Than you won’t be able to complain about Rafa playing Voronin, Degen, Babel etc.
4. In case we can’t get new players (no money) listed above, start playing the youth. Damn the consequences. If we place outside the 4th place, so be it. We will patiently wait for the young players to mature and take over. Better days will come.
5. Give Rafa till the end of the season and then appraise his performance. If he falls short, replace him with whoever you feel can do a better job.

saif - November 1st, 2009 at 11:40 am

todays rumors for liverpool david villa jhone arne rise henry and mata out dossena and bable

Donavan Ried - November 1st, 2009 at 1:09 pm

This is F*cking amazing, No really ……
We are alone in a swamp full of p!ss andsh!t, our clothes are soak though, pulling us down, and our wellies are begining to fill result of which we sink like a stone ……. Do with …….. (a) try and tread water (The foul smelling p!ss and Sh!t)……. Or (b) kick off one wellie at a time…… (Rafa, and the sub standard players) and hope we can get rid of the clothes ( Mr G. Gillett) ……

The “In Rafa we trust” brigade would have you believe that if Rafa was to go players like Albert Riera,Fabio AurelioPepe Reina, and Fernando Torres would follow him out the door, or that a new manager would come in and start making whole sale changes. I doubt it very much although with some of the players we have it might not be a bad idea …… Funny listening to some of the supporters on LFC TV, alot of them were echoing the things that a lot of us have been saying. This did not only limit it self to the supporters, but the pundits were saying it too……

We don,t need five steps to improve Liverpool …… We just have to take the right one …..

I don’t get up to Anfield that often,(Family comitments), But i was at Craven Cottage. ……
If ever there was a advert for us needing a second Quility striker, then that was it……
But here is one that Liverpool could get on the cheap as a short term solution…….

Let me say something in defence of Rafa, and that is Aquilani looks as if he could be a great buy, BUT…………
(1) He still should not have risk the clubs money on a injuried player ……

(2) he should have brough in cover for Aquilani in the shape of VDV ……
This is because of not knowing how long it would take Aquilani to reach full fitness ……

btw any manager can make a great buy in the transfer market

Kevin Davies for Bolton: – Big,strong fast, scores goal can link with others,can hold the ball up, can play along side a partner, or by himself ……..

I think the best that we can realistically hope for this season is

(1) a top four finish ……

(2) Gillett selling his stake in LFC ……

Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 1st, 2009 at 1:13 pm

Ummm!! Where to start? We had a very bad day at the office which happens. I’m with the sensible people on here who see the big picture and don’t just call for the managers head when things are going bad. People say that Benitez only wants to win the CL and doesn’t care about the league. This is obviously not true but in the CL you have 6 games to qualify for the next stage so it is important to have your best players available. In the league there are many more games to put things right. I do agree that some of his choices are questionable. Why doesn’t pacheco get a chance ahead of Voronin or Babel, who again showed just how poor a player he is. I’m not happy at the moment but I am not calling for the managers head because in the 5 years that Benitez has been at the club it has progressed even under the restraints that he has had to work with.. It is the owners who should go not the manager as it is obvious that they don’t care about the club.

Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 1st, 2009 at 2:03 pm

I agree with anon above. Also, the grass is not always greener. The way some of our supporters ( I use the term loosely) are the new guy would get about 6 months before his head would also be called for. If signing new players is a gamble, getting a new manager is also a gamble. The secret to success (unless there are unlimited funds) is continuity of management. I agree that Benitez makes mistakes but many of these mistakes could be avoided if the club wasn’t in turmoil at the top. It affects everything.

...samlfc.... - November 1st, 2009 at 3:11 pm

Getting a new manager during a season would be a terrible desicion as it would effect everyone players or backroom staff and our form could b even worse!
However if we did sack Rafa during the season i would choose to do so just before or maybe at the beginning of the Jan window because then the new manager would get his chance to buy and sell players he wants and doesn’t want respescatively….
But then then i still think it would be bad as unlike the summer transfer window we have pre-season friendlies to find where people play best at and what tactics the manager thinks is best and losing wouldn’t be that bad as it desn’t count…in Jan however we have no mid-season friendlies and we just jump in games which does count and trying to find out the best tactics during these games could be very bad for us!

So if we do sack Rafa(not syaing i want to) i would say wait until the end of the season unless thins go very bad like facing relegation should we change managers!!

isaac hunt - November 1st, 2009 at 3:21 pm

Donavan Ried – November 1st, 2009 at 2:07 am

He could have maybe gotten Podolski fo £9-£11m cash two seasons age from Bayern along with Bastian Schweinsteiger on a free …..

that shows your lack of knowledge. dont you realise podolski is only good for the national side and only scored about 2 goals this season. why would you want to buy schweinsteiger? he is also only good for germany and is exactly the same as our other players, rira,babel etc. again you said swap alonso for huntelaar?!?! why? yes he is obviously better than voronin but he is way overrated as he is showing at ac milan.

kevin davies is never a liverpool player. if we bought him we are definately going backwards. i think you have either been playing football manager to long or are just deluded and one of those fans who leave early.

Red_Phoenix - November 1st, 2009 at 3:58 pm

I think the only reason, apart from the Champions League game on Wednesday, that Babel and Voronin are getting game time is to try and raise their value when they are eventually sold in January on in the summer or loaned out. We know about Hertha Berlin for Voronin but there is the off chance someone else may come in with a better offer if he puts in a half decent effort in a game or too. Same for Babel with Ajax.

Maybe these reasons put together explains Voronin playing in the link up role where Benayoun should have been playing. BUT is it an excuse to be made or used to the detriment of the team? Rhetorical question if you ask me. And just to state the obvious, NO, its not an excuse.

Aquaman - November 1st, 2009 at 4:09 pm

On a side note. All of those people who claim that Mourinho will be our savior, he was asked by the press beofre the LFC man u game if he would consider it and he said “No. It is impossible.” Why do you think this is? I think there are two reasons.

1) Its quite fair to say that the main reason LFC and Chelsea have such hatred for one another is down to Mourinho. Chelsea going places with cash to blow, Mourinho’s arrogance and his arrogant players all rubbed us the wrong way. Mourinho will not be taking the reigns at the enemy.

2) Why did Mourinho leave Chelsea? 2 reasons. He was forced to buy Shevchenko (cough cough Robbie Keane cough) and he was annoyed that his director kept restricting him and placing demands on him. Do you really for one second think that he’d be willing to work under our Fuhrers when he couldn’t work under a billionaire with only one demand (ie CL).

Everything about Mourinho is completely unliverpudlian. People will say Shankley was arrogant but he loved the fans and did what he did for them. Mourinho cares only for himself and his paycheck. Do we want Drogba the diving twat at our club? I sure don’t, no matter how good he is, but he is seen as the ideal Mourinho player.

Anyway, I’ll end that rant there. Onto the other hand.

Some people are saying that other managers would not accept the post. This is ridiculous. Mourinho has special reasons why he won’t come, but I think almost any other manager out there would jump at the chance, financial struggles or not. It’s a chance to write yourself into the history of one of the finest clubs in the world (which Mourinho will claim he’s already done. Ok I’ll shut up about him now).

We saw what happened with Harry. He jumped from a high table team in Portsmouth to the absolute bottom with Tot just so he could be with the club with the better history. There’s no other treason I could see. And Tot were in a much worse position when he did than we are in now.

Now it may sound like I’m arguing against myself but I’m just making 2 points. Rafa is easily replaceable (not that I want him to be) and Mourinho IS NOT COMING!

Aquaman - November 1st, 2009 at 4:12 pm

Here’s a reference for the above quote: http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2009/10/23/1579885/jose-mourinho-dismisses-liverpool-speculation

Aquaman - November 1st, 2009 at 4:13 pm

he he. Freudian slip there. treason = reason

Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 1st, 2009 at 4:19 pm

I agree that Maureen will NEVER be Liverpool manager. You are also correct to think that any manager would come but that does not mean that any manager is capable of doing anything more than Benitez has done. I can see it now. Mr new manager comes in, wins first 2 games then proceeds to lose his next 5. The internet would be red hot with shouts of Mr new manager out etc, etc. People. Be careful what you wish for.

Donavan Ried - November 1st, 2009 at 4:19 pm

Why is it that some 90% plus for the time that Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal can field there strongest team both in the Premier League and the Champions League?…….
Why is it that Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal will pretty much make sure that a game as been put to bed and then, pull off players to rest them for the Champions League fixture?……
Rafa never does this, in stead he will field a weaken side and save the players for the CL……
It means more to rafa to win the CL ….. I can understand it,him being Sainish and all …….(And before i get acused fo being racist, I’m was born in England and have,a Dutch granfather a Germany granfather, and a Irish great granmother and both granmothers were Jamaica) ……..as i was saying,I can understand it,him being Sainish and all. He will want to go back to Spain at the end of the Career, and who will want to see EPL medals??? ……..
Champions League Medals means that he was top of league as for as a manager goes in Europe ……
Say Stevie G said…….. “If i was to go and win the EPL with another team when i come back to live in Liverpool, who could i show them too? ….. Who would want to see”…..
So I get the whole “winning the CL, thing”. .. But it does not mean that i have to like or except it ……And i get that Rafa may not understand how much it really means to the Supporters, but after Five season plus in charge you might think that he would have gotten it by now….. Take the squad that he fielded against Fulham ……. Just last Wednesday before the Arsenal game the pundits were talking about the up coming Fulham game and how hard Roy Hodgson have made them to beat ….. You would think that Rafa would already know this and field a stronger side(Voronin???) ……. The season ago Did he not do the same thing against Reading??? when we needed to win the last three CL matches?……
People keep putting the blame on the owners ……Look at Arsen Wenger and what he has done on little money due to paying for the Emirates ……
(This is by no means having a go at Rafa. Just a observation on my part)…. But it seem as if Rafa and his back room staff have very little knowledge of players unless for the most part they are Spainish ……. ,Look at Wenger, and José Mourinho and for the most part Alex Ferguson teams …… Players for all coners of the world ….
Yes we have players from different parts of the world, but it still gets me that he seem unwilling to take a good look at players like Podolski. …. and players like Schweinsteiger ……

To Quote …. Hoogleboogybugleboy – November 1st, 2009 at 2:03 pm …….. “The secret to success (unless there are unlimited funds) is continuity of management. I agree that Benitez makes mistakes but many of these mistakes could be avoided if the club wasn’t in turmoil at the top. It affects everything.” ……

Said this before, when your right you r right and Hoogleboogybugleboy is right about this…..

Yes we are a club in turmoil, but Rafa is there to do a job and should concentrate wholly on the job at hand and do the best that he can with the tools that he has…..

Stop agrueing with Hicks and Gillett do your job and if you can’t then kindly leave

This does not mean that i am supporting Rafa now, only that i am attempting to understand what is going on in his head

…samlfc…. – November 1st, 2009 at 3:11 pm

“Getting a new manager during a season would be a terrible desicion as it would effect everyone players or backroom staff and our form could b even worse” …….

This should only be done at the close of season ……

Aquaman - November 1st, 2009 at 4:21 pm

Oh and apparently Rafa is going to appeal both red cards.

Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 1st, 2009 at 4:41 pm

Donavan. You cannot really believe that Benitez does not want to win the Premier league and that it means nothing to him. It is the biggest and best league in World football so the fact that he is Spanish is irrelevant. How many managers have won it? Notice that not one Englishman is on the list. You also seem to think that he plays a weakened team on purpose. He plays the players that are fit and available from the squad and the team that he played yesterday on paper was as good, if not better than Fulham’s. Why did we lose the game? Maybe it was because he took off Torres, who incidently was not 100% match fit and who indicated that he wanted to come off. Maybe it was because he took off Benayoun, who had also become inaffective in the second half so a change there was not that unexpected. He could have taken off Voronin instead but Voronin won’t play on Wednesday, Benayoun probably will so it makes sense. The truth is, the team did not play well enough to win with 11 players so with 9, forget it. I do think that Voronin, babel and Degan are not good enough to play for Liverpool but the manager brought them all to the club so he has to show that he has confidence in them. They will all be sold as soon as they can though. Of that i am sure.

Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 1st, 2009 at 4:45 pm

I believe as a matter of course the manager must appeal. Neither will be resinded though.

Aquaman - November 1st, 2009 at 4:46 pm

Hoogleboogybugleboy: Perhaps I should have clarified. I don’t want Rafa out. I’m just trying (probably in vain) to quell both of these misconceptions.

Donavan: Can’t fault your argument about Rafa’s priorities (even though I do think they are a little harsh). However I don’t believe that the other top teams field their “strongest lineups” as often as you think (man u especially).

Its a little known fact, that Thomo brought up on the lfc website (can’t give a reference because I can’t find the dratted thing). Apparently SAF has rotated his squad more than Rafa for the last 2 seasons (possibly more. drawing from memory). SAF just has the luxury of a squad so strong that its debatable what his strongest 11 actually is. Chelsea have this benefit as well.

Arsenal I can’t comment on. Wenger is a genius and I feel it is a little harsh to expect another to live up to him (kinda like expecting any modern band to live up to Pink Floyd).

Now this (once again) brings us back to the squad issue. I’m not going to delve into the finance issue again because even I’m getting bored of it. I’ll simply say that I think Rafa has done quite well (note not exceptionally, just quite) with the cash he’s had. I do think that Rafa is to blame though because he knows how weak the squad is but still expects so much out of them.

I beg that we not take the last game out of the context of our injury crisis (though i wonder where skrtel, aurelio and agger were…), but at the same time I do agree that the blame is largely Rafa’s. But we’re a team who fights back under him, and I don;t see us being down for long. Keep the faith. The dawn is coming (I hope).

Donavan Ried - November 1st, 2009 at 4:48 pm

hunt – November 1st, 2009 at 3:21 pm …………

.”that shows your lack of knowledge. dont you realise podolski is only good for the national side and only scored about 2 goals this season. why would you want to buy schweinsteiger? he is also only good for germany “…….?????

isaac…..”podolski is only good for the national side” ……

Does that not tell you that if he is good for the national side (Against better oppersion) that maybe some thing is not rigth with him and his club ….. same goes for Schweinsteiger ……. a big part of the reason Podolski moved from Bayern was Klinsman and the fact that he had a falling out with Ballack and Klinsman and for a time was dropped from the national side ……( SEE http://www.youtube.com Podolski schlägt Ballack)

Plus Fc Koln are not doing so well at the moment

Schweinsteiger was moved from one side of midfield to another so Bayern could incorporate Franck Ribéry into the side and that why his goal scoring rate dropped off

...samlfc.... - November 1st, 2009 at 4:54 pm

Donavan Ried – November 1st, 2009 at 4:19 pm
“Getting a new manager during a season would be a terrible desicion as it would effect everyone players or backroom staff and our form could b even worse” …….

“This should only be done at the close of season ……”
i can’t tell if your agreeing with me or not as i did say about us only getting a new manager in the pre-season but i’m guessing you are? please let me know!
and Hoogleboogybugleboy i hope your right about Vorining,degen and babel being sold sooner rather than later

Donavan Ried - November 1st, 2009 at 5:06 pm

Hoogleboogybugleboy – November 1st, 2009 at 4:41 pm ….. ” Donavan. You cannot really believe that Benitez does not want to win the Premier league and that it means nothing to him” ….. Sorry had to re- read what it was i said….
No ….. I said that “It means more to rafa to win the CL” …..

In other words it does not mean as mush as winning the CL …. Did not say that he does no want to win it, just that the CL means more to him …….

Think the other managers understood what it meant to the Supporters more and Rafa does ….

On the “weakened team” look back to the Reading game we lose 3-1 ….. and look atb the fulham game and his choice of players and the benny sub, that was with the CL in mind ……

well lets hope that it was all worth it. Guest we will soon know on wednesday LOL …. Have a good week

Donavan Ried - November 1st, 2009 at 5:11 pm

…samlfc…. – November 1st, 2009 at 4:54 pm …… What i meant is if you are not in the bottom four and in danger of going down then i believe that a club should never sack the manager until the end of the season ….. Sorry yet another example for me not making myself clear …… LOL

Mark G. - November 1st, 2009 at 6:29 pm

1. It is a beatiful dream for any team to win the Premiership competition. It is however, unrealistic for most of the teams to believe it may happen. The reason, why most teams, beyond the Big Four before, or Big Seven now, is they don’t have resources to compete for the best players, that money can buy. Therefore, most of them are playing to survive, and to show a modest profit at the the end of the year. Their fansare happy to win or tie a game or two against any of the big teams. So the Fulham supporters are a very happy bunch today.
2. The Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City, Aston Villa have huge advantages over smaller teams. They have bigger stadium, huge sponsorship deals, the sell more club merchandise all over the globe, get more money from the league based on their higher placements, are invited to play “friendlies” for which they are well paid etc. Last but not least, they vie for the prize money in international club competition. They fans feel most of time they club “owe” to them to bring them trophies every year.
3. Liverpool FC, has been historically at the top of the heap, in terms of the trophies, prestige, profits and worl-wide recognition. In recent years, as busines, it has been less sucessful. While the competitors moved to larger stadiums, it continued at the hallowed ground, Anfield. The previous owner, Mr. Moores, was not exactly known for the best business management skills in the England. While the appearance of being competitive were there, the club started to slide behind other big teams. At the end, Mr. Moores sold to the highest bidder.
4. Mr. Hicks and Gillete, are not exactly the paragons of proper businessmen. I wrote before, about their bancruptcies, being economical with truth, overpromising and underdelivering. They most likely bought LFC speculating they can turn around, sell it and pocket a tidy profit. They have no intentions to compete with Chelsea and Manchester U. in term of investment in the club.
5. Due to unrealistic price demands, recession, they have been unable to fulfill their ambitions. The club has been kept a hostage and is sliding down, unable to compete.
6. I guess Rafa stayed with the club, hoping for a new smarter, richer and more comitted owner. He knows, the prospects for quick injections of new capital and players under the present owners are non-existent. He has to sell, before he can buy.
7. The supporters of LFC, can acknowledge the new reality, hope for new owners, or as some has been doing, find a scapegoat and try to run him out of town. Instead of realizing that he has overpeformed, they can analyze his every move, players, substitutions etc. Instead of realizing that Rafa has to make painful compromises imposed by injuries, they prefer to accuse him of idiotic moves and sabotaging the club. Rafa has been rather stoic througout, not compaining to much about injuries, incompetent referees, bad lack etc. Eventually, he may throw in the towel.
8. Realistically, we are not competitive with Arsenal and Chelsea. Arsenal is stocked with young playersand wily veterans. Chelsea has a great team and a great coach. Manchester U. will soon bring David Silva, Villa, di Maria or some players from Italy and start playing much better. With Gerrard surgery on the horizon, we will be playing for the 4th place. Anything better will be a bonus. If Rafa’s gamble on saving the core of the team for Lyon works, we may be able to go to the next round, which should allow some money for new players in January. Next year should be better, the young players are on the way. Hopefully, the new owners will be here soon.
YNWA

Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 1st, 2009 at 7:18 pm

anonymous – November 1st, 2009 at 7:11 pm

What planet do you live on? Do you believe all of that stuff that you just posted?…. The mind boggles it really does.

Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 1st, 2009 at 7:20 pm

anonymous – November 1st, 2009 at 7:11 pm

And if all of the players that you suggest Benitez buys fail at Liverpool. Would you take the responsibity or would that Be Benitez’s fault. It just isn’t as simple as that to get players in mate because if it were Benitez would have done it by now.

Aquaman - November 1st, 2009 at 7:40 pm

I’ve never understood why so many LFC supporters want Villa. I’m not knocking the lad (he’s quality of the highest level), but when Torres and Villa play for spain it only seems to work for Villa. It’s sad to say but Nando has a pretty shocking international record especially when compared to Villa. Additionally Torres always seems to play best for his country when Villa isn’t (The winner in the Euro final for example). I don’t know why this is (I suspect its down to tactics) but I don’t want it happening at LFC.

If this were fantasy manager I would buy a 10 – 15 mil “2nd striker” to back Torres up, and spend the majority of my dosh on a winger so Yossi can play in the Gerrard hole while Gerrard himself partners Masch in midfield. This may change if (or, hopefully, when) Aquliani proves to be the quality we need.

...samlfc.... - November 1st, 2009 at 8:21 pm

Aquaman one problem with that is we aren’t in fantasy manager lol i know you stated that but i felt like saying it anyway
Donavan no worries mate it happens to everyone lol

So lyon is next and This is what Rafa should do:
let Yossi start the game, N’gog partnering Torres if torres is finding it difficult to break defence (as it does happen) because he is in some bit of form of late so might aswell, Don’t play vorinin unless you want an earfull from the Anfield faithfull and If and i say it again IF aquilani is fit enough then put him on the bench and play him with 15 mins or 20 mins to play!
If there is others i forgot to mention then let me know!

Retryboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:33 am

Isaac… I really don’t care about your opinions on a true liverpool fan. The fact that you think kelly is the only talented youngster we have because he is the only one you have seen is pathetic. True fans tore their hair out at the purchases of degen, voronin, kyrgiakos because we had darby, ayala, kelly, nemeth, pacheco. You have seen the quality of kelly, insua and ayala now well nemeth, pacheco, darby are even better. Suggest you try watching the reserves for a year before you try saying they can’t be good enough because rafa hasn’t picked them and maybe you will appreciate the level of player that misses out because of rafa’s faith in players that will never be good enough. Hate using utd as an example but they have a young player obertan few good reserve games, a carling cup match and he gets his debut. Contrast that to nemeth 25 goals in a season loaned out, injured wastes a season gets fit scores goals pre season and loaned out again. Darby reserve captain for 2 seasons consistently the best defender in the team with insua in so that shows he is at a higher level than insua and has leadership qualities to boot. Ayala comes in the first team performs really well and rafa signs kyrgiakos saying its to help ayala and kellys development! How is that? By taking away their first team opportunities? Sorry should tell you that kelly is equally as good at centre back know that your knowledge is limited to what rafa does. Owen, fowler, rooney all got their debuts at 17/18. Rafa has had £239m shouldn’t have a penny more sell the poor players, trim the squad, trust the youth to be back ups, get a couple of quality first team challengers in, actually balance the squad instead of having 6 players in one position 2 in another. We’re not talking rocket science or tactical genius here its all so obvious… Ronnie whelan called for rafa to be sacked after the way he gave up the game at fulham i suppose the ‘in rafa we trust’ brigade will be preaching to him about liverpool values and being a true red!

Retryboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 6:27 am

Aquaman stated that rafa rotates less than ferguson its true ever since everyone got on his back for changing 6 players a game he took years sticking to that policy then went to never rotating anyone as if to prove a point. There is never any happy medium in his decisions rotating 1/2 players from your strongest line-up against weaker teams safeguards against injury and lets fringe players come into a full strength team. All this said agree that changing the manager now would be wrong and we aren’t out of anything yet who would bet against us winning the champions league this year? like i said before won’t follow him blindly but whilst he is manager will always hope he will get it right. About the scapegoats… I mean owners, think hicks is unfairly tarred with the same brush as gillett from whose mouth all the lies have poured. United turnover £256m a year ars-£222m che-£210m compared to our £162m thats what purslow is trying to sort out with tapping into the middle east, negotiating record sponsorship deals etc… We owe £227.5m utd-£210m ars-£280m che-£616m there was nothing strange in borrowing to buy a club just the economic climate at the time of purchase meant these loans had to be re-paid at higher rates. Our parent company owes £446m utd’s-£620m ars-£674m che-£850m over the past 5 years on average we lose £5m a year utd make £15.5m ars make £0.5m and chelsea lose £84m and people want a mega rich owner to come in? If abramovich takes his money out of chelsea they will go to the wall and the same with city. They have no infra-structure never want our club to be a billionaires play thing. The yanks are actually doing the right thing sorting out the revenue off the pitch and marketing the club properly stuff that should have been done years ago. If we are generating profits and not spending them on the club then fair enough but thats not whats happening.

Donavan Ried - November 2nd, 2009 at 12:18 pm

Aquaman – November 1st, 2009 at 4:46 pm ………”Donavan: Can’t fault your argument about Rafa’s priorities (even though I do think they are a little harsh). However I don’t believe that the other top teams field their “strongest lineups” as often as you think (man u especially).”……..
Ok thats a fair and valid point ….. Point taken.

isaac hunt – November 1st, 2009 at 3:21 pm …… Sorry had to come back to this……
“kevin davies is never a liverpool player. if we bought him we are definately going backwards.” ……….
So Voronin is a step forward, N’gog is a step forward,Babel is a Step forward ???? ………. you are one of the poeple here that constanly complain that Rafa has no money to spend. Here is a cheap option striker wise that scores goals, and can lead the line. That has constantly out performed Voronin, Babel and N’gog, that can play by himself up front or with a partner, that spends less time injuried than most forwards and would do a better job than Emile Heskey …. Those are the pro’s ……. The con’s are his age, and how much would he cost ……..
But if the rumors are true then Babel is on his way to Ajax for £6m in Jan’ so theres a start ……

Retryboy – November 2nd, 2009 at 4:33 am ……. Sorry, Good Morning by the way……… Can’t fualt a word of what you have said there ….well done

Retryboy – November 2nd, 2009 at 6:27 am ………. Another great post. ……you deserve a gold star, and to have you post diplayed to the whole class …. LOL ……Nice one mate

Donavan Ried - November 2nd, 2009 at 12:50 pm

anonymous – November 1st, 2009 at 11:06 pm (Pete) …… Thank you for your post …..
A question:- You say “We have to sign very medicore players, take the Greek fella do you think Rafa would have signed him if he didnt have the cash to get a world class centre back or any others at least ?”……..
Ok lets say this is true. Buying Sotirios Kyrgiakos Rafa was trying to get cover for the injuried, and he is experienced but would still have to learn the system and the style of football that Liverpool play, Yes ……. So here,s the question. …..

Would it not have been better to have used one of the Young Reds Martin Kelly,Daniel Sanchez Ayala or Mikel San Jose Dominguez as cover as they alread know the style and system that we play there by saving the club the transfer fee plus the wages, and also giving them valuable first team football?…….

One other thing you state that…….. “I would suggest you read up the views of Bian reade, Paul Tomkins and Tony Jarret (all respected journalist and die hard liverpool fans)” …….. Just because someone is a “respected journalist” It does not mean that their comments are any “Less or More Valid” than someone else, Nor does the fact that someone reads a different paper mean their veiws is again less or more valid than anyone elses. At the end of the day we are all just people, some maybe smarter than others but we are still people and people get things wrong from time to time ……
If i got everything rigth in my life i would be a muti-trillionaire,I would own LFC, we would have won the CL,EPL,FA.Cup,League Cup, The Super Cup, and The World Club Cup For the last 30 plus years ….. Charity Shield ????….. Well you have to leave something for the others to fight out ….

But thank’s again

Donavan Ried - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:34 pm

anonymous – November 2nd, 2009 at 6:18 pm …… Pete ……… “do you go to watch liverpool at Anfield regular” …… What does it matter were i watch Liverpool. the fact is i watch them. I take it that you live in ‘pool …….. I live in North London….. You might have a better paid job than me, you might be single, have no kids, or you just might put LFc before these responsibilities.I can not …… My partner also suffers from depression …. so i have ot look after her alot …. So the fact that i can not make it to Anfield that often does not mean in anyway that i am less of a supporter than you,…..

“the players you mention are not ready to play week in week out especially in a side that is lacking in confidence they need to be nutured”…… Owen, Flower and Gerrard all featured regularly in their teens for LFC, at this rate these players will be lucky to feature at 24-25 ……

“With regards to the journalist i mention they are in a better position to comment about the club than you or i. Fact” …….

Fact??…… Why because their journalist ?? …… Maybe they have three ears, four eyes and two brains …… Becuase then don’t write for the Sun?? …..

They see the same thing you and i see THATS A FACT……

ALL NEWS PAPERS can write bs time to time, they doit to sell papers

...samlfc.... - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:38 pm

Donavan Ried
I’m sorry to hear about your partners depression and i hope she gets better soon!

Donavan Ried - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:43 pm

anonymous – November 2nd, 2009 at 8:38 pm

Accord to you then LFC should note play in places like the far east as it would be a waste of time because they have no supporters out there Yes? ….. Becuase as you put it …… “Youir not a supporter unlessu go me old fruit” …..

Donavan Ried - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:51 pm

…samlfc…. – November 2nd, 2009 at 8:38 pm Thanks mate, but it has been that way for the last 15 plus years …
But i was not said to gain any sympathy, I merely mention i to show some of the people here that you can slate someone for not going to matches day in and day out, you ( Mean everyone) have no idea for the circumstances that others live with. ……..

Donavan Ried - November 3rd, 2009 at 12:07 am

anonymous – November 2nd, 2009 at 9:36 pm ……. Thank you Pete will give the book a read ……
Thank also for your kind words……

Aquaman - November 3rd, 2009 at 12:28 am

To the multitudes of anonymi who claim that not going to Anfield means you aren’t a fan. I ask you all whether you were paying any attention to the Reds preseason tour of Asia? People were camping in the streets outside the hotel to catch a glimpse of any of our players. Every game was sold out. Every public appearance was swarmed. The players themselves said they were stunned by the devotion showed by these fans. Are you seriously telling me that they aren’t really fans because they don’t go to Anfield? If you say yes then, I’m sorry, but you are wrong. There’s no argument there. You are just wrong. I realise that this sounds a bit biased since I, myself, am from sunny South Africa (well sometimes sunny…) so I haven’t ever been to Anfield (THERE, I SAID IT! STONE ME!).

I can understand the point that us supporting in front of the TV does nothing to help the players on gameday. However we support in the only way we can, and that doesn’t make us any less of a supporter (just less fortunate). I remind you also that those of us who support from outside Liverpool have chosen LFC as our club. This means that we have weighed every club in every league and decided that this will be the one we support. This means that, in some ways, we are more so than those who simply got born in Liverpool and had to choose blue or red.

Now onto the people that matter (ie those who take 5 BLOODY SECONDS out of their lives to register [come on Pete. great posts but, please, register])

Retryboy: Great post about the finances. I agree fully that the owners aren’t given the credit they deserve. Not that this credit outweighs the stick they deserve, but if we’re going to criticise their failures then we should praise their accomplishments as well.

In the same way that Rafa inherited a squad unworthy of the shirt, similarly the Yanks inherited a company unworthy of the name. We saw the amount of support that LFC has in asia during the preseason and I’m willing to bet that this is nothing new. I can vouch for South Africa when I say that Man U and LFC are by far the most supported teams here and its around 50/50 on that count too (and don’t forget who’s done all the trophy winning in recent memory). There’s a huge amount of untapped potential out there that LFC simply have not utilised.

This is part of the reason why man u are the force that they are today. The finances we need, man u have because they’ve done the hard work. I have a sneaky suspicion that the Yanks were lied to when they bought the club (Hah!). I suspect that the promises they made about the stadium were built on a false impression of the parent company’s health (this is my wild speculation so take it with a bucket of salt).

This does not excuse them of course. If this is true then the way they handled the whole affair was shocking. Also I still don’t believe they have the financials necessary for the owners of a club of our stature. But then maybe that will come. The business dealings we’ve been doing recently have impressed me immensely (this is largely thanks to Purslow, who was brought in by Laurel and Hardy).

Now (my wild speculation aside) I feel that, in the big picture, everything to do with LFC is improving amazingly: we’re buying quality for the squad (Torres, Masch, Johnson in the last 3 years with Robbie Keane the only similar priced failure and Aquilani untested), we’re getting great sponsors, the stadium will be built after the recession (fnah fnah). The only thing that’s going wrong right now is the only thing that really matters. Which is kinda bad. Kinda very bad.

Aquaman - November 3rd, 2009 at 12:34 am

Bleh. Just realised I had a lot of other points to make about other posts, but went overboard on one (as usual). Oh well…

Retryboy - November 3rd, 2009 at 1:18 am

Aquaman another quality post. Pathetic from you dave have watched every liverpool match and reserve game for years either in the pub or in the armchair sure tv with all the cameras pick up everything better than being at the game but when its financially possible for me to get to anfield will be straight up there. Suggest you read Ronnie whelan’s comments on the game at fulham, how it is not the liverpool way to ever give up on a game and how benayoun’s substitution proved that the epl wasn’t rafas priority. All things that donovan has posted. Whelan is the first liverpool legend to brave the wrath of the in rafa we trust brigade sure now others will follow he even goes further suggesting rafa is trying to win in europe to guarantee his pick of clubs. This is a democracy everyone has 2 eyes and a brain and so anyone that watches the games is qualified to judge. You obviously missed every reserve game in our title winning season if you think these players aren’t ready. Insua got his chance only because of injuries to the 2 players ahead of him and took it as did kelly and ayala. Well nemeth, pacheco and darby have out performed them in the reserves. Nemeth and pacheco can be every bit as good as owen and fowler and i base that on my own two eyes. They don’t have to be as good now they only have to be better than voronin, babel think that isn’t really an arguement. Donovan keep posting mate you talk a lot of sense.

Aquaman - November 3rd, 2009 at 7:50 am

Thanks anonymous (I promised myself I’d stop telling people to register. Oh well)

I take it from the “dear liverpool fans” that LFC is not your first team (though i’m guessing barca is), which just makes your comments that much better. Its always nice to hear those unaffiliated with the club sticking up for those they hold in high regard.

So all my best wishes go with you anonymous. May Barca win the title again and only lose to LFC in the champion’s league final (:P).