The Myth of Liverpool Boss Rafa Benitez Part 1
by Jonny Carter on November 2nd, 2009 1,095 words | 133 commentsNew COS columnist Jonny Carter tries to get his head around Rafa’s continued presence at Anfield.
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Part I…
After an alarming aberration of results both domestically and on the continent, with fortune seemingly smiling the other way, and with a splinter faction of dissent canvassing support for a rebel march designed to topple the American ownership, the last thing Liverpool needed was a shambolic away defeat at mid table mediocrity.
It seems that Rafa Benítez has immortality at Liverpool that transcends rational logic. The Anfield faithful appear deliriously content with Benítez irrespective of results, performance or expenditure. The Liverpool terraces have a confidence in Benítez that those outside cannot begin to justify. When tangible gains and intrinsic contentment are to be measured Benítez fails to register on any level and yet the doting lemmings who buy the shirts and subscribe for the season tickets never deem it appropriate question.
A few pertinent facts remain baffling to those who see Benítez as a charlatan and not the maverick that Liverpool fans endorse.
The underlying current to any dispute about Rafa Benítez stops abruptly when you introduce the topic of his Liverpool trophy haul. For all his inaccuracies or for all his genius the outcome remains just two genuine trophies in five seasons. And the two wrong trophies at that. Granted, that during the first few seasons of the Benítez regime he wasn’t even trying to win the Premiership despite the desires of the club around him, concentrating rather on the European forum. But two wins in cup competitions and never more than a whimpering gesture towards the domestic league must surely be deemed less than adequate.
And while Liverpool supporters still appropriately dine out on that European night it is also worth considering that since Liverpool won the competition there have been plenty of other English teams to grace the final, some of those teams even winning it. And while those other English teams were contesting the European competition they were also competing for the Premier League title at home, some of those teams even winning it.
And though Liverpool success was not being earned certainly the expense was being paid. Despite American owners and Arabian consortiums and Russian billionaires being rife in the Premier League, there is still some remaining morality to the money; someone still has to be culpable. Liverpool have spent an inordinate sum of money on a list of players nearly a page long and totalling amounts that could support an entire lower league of English football. The revolving door marshalled by Benítez has seen the ideal of inflated prices remunerated for inadequate players becoming a staple of the club’s philosophy. Over paid and underperforming players bought and jettisoned before they can learn the drive to the training ground. This in total contradiction to established performers being allowed to leave and blossom under the consoling appreciation of another manager.
It has still not been explained to me why Lucas Leiva is now the chosen fulcrum of the Liverpool midfield though he seems to have the passing game of girl, or why Ryan Babel only gets nine minutes of football every two weeks, or why Robbie Keane was bought, never played and then sold at a loss in fewer than twenty games. And who spends £19million on an injured player? Nobody.
The departure of Alonso has been crippling for Liverpool and yet not at all unexpected. The disappointing thing for Liverpool is that Alonso was more than driven out of the club by the fumbled conduct of Benítez. The persistent courting of Gareth Barry and the stubborn lack of admiration for a truly class international player pretty much paved the way out of the door.
The carousel of players has led to a rather incoherent style of play under Benítez where pragmatism has gazumped sensationalism. Performances have lacked the elegance of some of the other top clubs both home and abroad. The constant tinkering of his early tenure removed the clarity that the team required. And since he has understood that playing the best players for the majority of the games will profit a richer revenue, he has equally understood that his depth of talent runs far too shallow. Gerrard can’t play fifty games a season.
But while the criticism of tinkering has somewhat been lost by Benítez his reputation for being the ‘master tactician’ relentlessly basks in his wake. The man for the one-off game. Aren’t all games one-off games? A league season is just thirty eight consecutive one-off games. To be prepared for one match and not another smarts of inconsistency, apathy and borderline managerial negligence. To so dramatically underestimate Fiorentina in this season’s European campaign was tragic evidence of that negligence. Lyon was worse; half-an-eye-on-United syndrome might just have jeopardised an entire European season.
Tactics remain the currency of the elite manager but it should also be recognised that on any given day any team can beat the other. That’s why we play the games after all. Football has that beautiful alchemy of just about ensuring that the best team will win on the journey while anomaly victories for inferior opposition can retain the balance. To trade uniquely on the ability to triumph in one individual game isn’t validation enough when mere chance could also explain the win. It also isn’t enough when you stop winning. To select one such example, Benítez was lauded as having the measure of a Chelsea team come the significant stages of the UEFA Champions League, yet in recent seasons that tide has emphatically turned. Master tactician seems a little obsolete today.
The most seminal moment of the Benítez reign has to be the Rafa rant. An embarrassing public display of contrived mitigations designed to explain away the conspiracies that were sabotaging the Liverpool charge. All bogus, of course. I have respect for the manager that faces the camera and fronts the questions with dignity and medicine at the conclusion of a heavy defeat. Blame shifting I will not condone. And if you’re going to pollute the media with slanderous tripe then it would prove prudent to be winning games off the back of such adventure.
From The Writings Of Jonny Carter
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anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 3:18 pm
It’s called backing the manager. Try it some time.
I forgot- you are a hack. Hacks don’t do loyalty. Hacks vent on their blogs.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 3:23 pm
bad manager but a good dancer aint he
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 3:31 pm
No, that’s Ferguson. He flaps his arms around like a kid denied of candy everytime a decision doesn’t go his way. What a cock!
Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Far too long and boring a piece of writing if you ask me.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 3:43 pm
You don’t understand why Babel gets ‘9 minutes a week’? He’s lucky to get a place on the bench. Have you actually seen him this season? His effort and performances have been woeful.
As for Keane, as much as I wanted the guy to succeed for the reds the simple facts are that he didn’t put the ball in the net when called upon …he is too slow to break down teams and he was just not good enough.
Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 3:43 pm
I can’t wait for part 2.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Oh god. There’s a ‘part two’?
I can’t wait for a second serving of superficial twaddle.
YNYA
(You’ll never yawn alone)
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 3:52 pm
And just how much did Alex Ferguson win in his first 5 years at Man United whilst trying to build a team?
Retryboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Sorry… I know you are a new writer for cos but found myself losing the will to live reading that. Its not a competition to make the article the hardest read possible and prove your intelligence by using as many long words (often the wrong words) as possible forcing us to re-read every paragraph. It also seems more like something that should be posted in response to an article rather than an actual balanced piece with any statement of fact for us to discuss.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 3:57 pm
what a load of trap… Looking at where Benitez picked liverpool up from compared to his other ‘big 4′ rivals, no one can argue he’s not been a success!
just 5 months ago he led liverpool to 2nd place in the league with their highest points total in 20 years, outscoring every other english club with over 100 goals in all competitions and all this from a ‘defensive side’.
He’s spent a lot, but he had to to improve on the likes of Cheyrou, Le Tallec, Diao, Biscan, Traore and Diouf who were all first team players! Not just squad members, but first team players!
He has a better win record in his first 200 league games in charge than every other liverpool manager except King Kenny and even better than Fergie and Wenger (who won the double during that period).
As for the Aquilani thing, Benitez had to replace Alonso… but who else is out there that he could bring to the club? And also when he signed him, the independent doctors report concluded he’d be back fit by the end of August. Good job we’ve signed him on a 5 year contract and not a 5 month one eh!
So stop writing this drivel and look at the real facts… oh and here’s one, in the same period, Arsene Wenger has won nothing… nada… zip… naff all! Go and campaign to get him sacked!
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
To quote:
“It has still not been explained to me why Lucas Leiva is now the chosen fulcrum of the Liverpool midfield though he seems to have the passing game of girl, or why Ryan Babel only gets nine minutes of football every two weeks, or why Robbie Keane was bought, never played and then sold at a loss in fewer than twenty games. And who spends £19million on an injured player? Nobody.”
This made me laugh. You’re so full of yourself that you expect these things to be explained to you? This is just another boring anti Benitex article and lacks any originality at all. All aboard the bandwagon!!
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:00 pm
“…why does the average fan, or, given their ceaseless negativity, almost every football pundit (who have never managed, yet appear to know it all) have to ‘understand’ a manager’s decision?”
Unfortunately, what you describe is a well-documented form of cognitive bias that we all share, known as second-order incompetence, or the Dunning-Kruger effect [1]. Briefly, it describes a person’s incompetence as being the very thing that prevents them from realising that they are themselves incompetent and leads to exactly the kind of hysteria we see surrounding football in the popular media.
Another way of putting it is to say that, the less knowledge one possesses about a topic, the more likely one is to consider themselves an expert. And equally, the more someone knows of a subject, the less likely they are to claim expertise.
Although there’s nothing really that can be done to counteract it, awareness of its effects can at least be used to identify those people worth listening to and those who perhaps should be ignored.
At least some writers ot there are more worthy of attention than, say, Jamie Redknapp, Jonny Carter or Graeme Souness.
Anyway, all the best, and keep fighting the good fight for those who actually do it.
Cheers,
a True Liverpool Fan
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
I’ll add other links as I find/receive them, but I guess they are thin on the ground right now. Rather than put things into context, the media and the so called experts wants its flesh to devour.
Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Anon 3:57 above. Well said mate. Great post.
Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Just had a quick look at jonnycarter.com. It isn’t clear who he supports but it is clear that he doesn’t support Liverpool. I’d say he is anti Liverpool.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:10 pm
benitez aint leavin liverpool, he is here to come for many years.. i know it is hard times, but i trust him.. do you guys?
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:11 pm
…Owen Hargreaves was injured when United paid about 18 million for him? Sick note is now negociating a pay as you play contract! Money talks and Chelsea and United have spent more over the years than Liverpool….bang for the buck we’re doing OK. United had a similar result last year at Fulham, were in a similar position in the league and eventually won it! Oh, bye the way Liverpool were second……not too bad. Injuries are part of the game and every team is affected at some stage of the season……let’s wait until the end of the season to make our judgements.
Wearing ‘red tinted glasses’ and enjoying it!
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:12 pm
ok so injuries & illness have had nothing to do with our bad run! its just rafa??
yeah hes made some shocking substitutions but thats all! we have had pretty much all of our star players out at some point during the start of this season so why not look at the bigger picture? and why are you asking questions regarding people that under perform in the red shirt? have you watched the games Babel has played in? thats exactly why he gets 9 min every two weeks, i personaly wouldnt let him play at all! lucas is merely covering alonso’s gap poorly until aquilani is fully fit! and yeah i would spend that on him as he is class! its a long term signing not just one season!
shite article! FACT
Donavan Ried - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Masterful article Mr Carter. Well done sir ……
It amazes me how some people fail to see these things, correction, Don’t want to see these things, take the “anonymous” at the top opf the page for example …..
People have forgotten who Liverpool became a great team, and that was excepting nothing but the best when it came to players …..
It all started to change under Graeme Souness and with the excpetion of the odd player or two mediocrity as been the ket word the you associate with the of the majority Liverpool squad ……
I have asked a question so many times in the past and still no one wants to try and awnser it …….
THE QUESTION IS :- Why is it that so many good plays like Fernando Morientes, Craig Bellamy and Nicolas Anelka and fail to produce for LFC yet they leave and produce the goods for other teams …….
And before anyone states that that can’t play for a big club, we all know what Nicolas Anelka is doing at Chelsea …..
Fernando Morientes, cme to us as the top scorer in the CL and upon leaving he again becme the top scorer in the CL ……
So whats wrong with our system that makes top players stuggle to adapt
Another thing. ….. our general passing and players control for the ball seems to be being negelcted under our coaching staff ……
And just what are our scouts watchiong when it comes to players ???? ……
Liverpool Fc needs a Shake up from top to Bottom ……
we are fast becoming the top four team that everyone is saying that we can get a result playing against. …..
Once again Top article
Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:18 pm
I trust Benitez because I can’t see any good in sacking him at this stage of his tenure. He is infuriating at times but it would be the same supporting any team. People go on about Martin O’Neil but I know a couple of Villa fans and they are not exactly happy with him. For me, the only two managers in the Premier league that I would want instead of Benitez are Wenger and Fergusson but neither of those would EVER be Liverpool manager so that say’s it all for me really.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Rafa has spent a lot of money over his 5 years as manager of Liverpool granted BUT he has also recouped a lot of money that NEVER gets mentioned by journalists who only take into account gross & not net expenditure. Admittedly Rafa has made his fair share of mistakes in the transfer market (but which manger hasn’t) but his flops, apart from Robbie Keane tend to be £6m or less. The fact that he has made big profits on players such as Alonso, Crouch, Bellamy, Arbeloa ect seems to be forgotten. He also has got them to the semi finals or further of the champions league on 4 occasions which obviously produces financial rewards.
I don’t have exact figures but I don’t think many people would argue that over his 5 years in charge Liverpool have spent no where near as much as Chelsea or Man Utd, which reflects on these two clubs dominating the premier league over this period. I would also suggest that certainly Man City & maybe Tottenham & even Aston Villa NET spending is not too far behind Liverpool’s & none of these club’s have had anywhere near Liverpool’s “success” over the same period of time & their managers never get stick from journalist’s because they seen as blue eyed boys who cant do any wrong & give good press conferences.
So to summarise although Rafa undoubtedly has his flaws as a manager, but biased journalists (& pundits) have blatantly got it in for Rafa at the moment which is why they cant help kicking him when he’s down with biased, un-professional articles such as this!
Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:26 pm
I’ll answer your question Donavan. Nicolas Anelka was good for Liverpool in the short time that he was there. Houlier declined turning his loan into the full time contract which in my opinion was a mistake. Bellamy was also good for the short time he was here but he had a bad attitute. Still has. Benitez won’t tolerate it as other managers do. Nothing wrong with that in my book. I wouldn’t tolerate it either. Morientes just could not handle the Premier league. It is that simple. Also mate. Liverpool have had some right dodgy players over the years so don’t pretend that it is only Benitez that has signed such players.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Just another example of the lazy ill informed rantings masquerading as thoughtful journalism we have to endure week in , week out.
It’s strange that winning the European Cup is not an achievement when Benitez does it, but not winning it is, where Chelsea are concerned.
It may have gone unnoticed that Liverpool have played in 2 Finals , since Benitez arrived and Man Utd the same number, but because we didn’t have the squad to compete on all fronts it’s seen as a lesser achievement. Why is that?
All credit to Man Utd for their 3 finals in the 23 years Ferguson has been there, despite having a bottomless pit of money to spend during that time.
It will be interesting to see the reaction of the media to ‘Harry’ & ‘Sparky’ if they don’t win anything this season.
There again they only have squads that they have spent £203 & £270 million on respectively.
As for Chelsea….well how can a few league & F.A Cup wins be devalued when their squad only cost £240 million to assemble.
Arsenal and Wenger escape all criticism of course.As their squad only cost £89 million to cobble together. Despite having a team that were unbeaten Champions the season before Benitez arrived, and not winning anything but an F.A Cup, they van be excused because despite having money to spend, Wenger has chosen not to.
The cost of Liverpool’s squad? £156 million.
Though we don’t have the luxury of sending out £20 million pound players on loan. Or buting for £30 + million, or even £9 million on youth players.
However all of that is irrelevent isn’t it?
Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Why was that link taken off. http://www.transferleague.co.uk
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Let’s all just take the tabloid negativity and hobble together an article against Rafa Benitez., it’s so easy to do.
But the facts are that Man United have a manager who has been building the club for nearly 20 years & have the biggest stadium in the UK. Arsenal have a manager who has been building the club for over 12 years and have a new stadium already built. Chelsea have an owner who has provided millions to sign the best players in their prime but with no longevity or youth system in place. Then there is Liverpool with new owners with no money, a stadium to build, a squad to overhaul, an academy to overhaul and a weight of expectation. Rafa has to deal with all of this aswell as keep the team competitive and prioritise the CL for the revenue it provides. In only 5 years I think Rafa has done a brilliant job to acheive what he has despite so many clubs all having very rich owners and all jostling for the top 4.
To answer your question, Morientes couldn’t hack the pace of the Premiership, Bellamy upset a few players while at Liverpool and we sold him on making a fat profit and Anelka did ok at Liverpool but it was decided he was a luxury player and a bit of an expensive gamble albeit this was many years ago now.
Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Great post anon 4:32. Good to see you echo my reasons when answering Donavans question. I’m surprised that no one can answer Donavans question as it is a rather simple one to answer?????
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:47 pm
donavan if you employed someone and they did the opposite to what you asked all the time would you get pissed off?
bellamy was a troublemaker and sold to fund a move for fernando torres
morientes was not suited
anelka was a mistake by houllier
you do not work with the players or are with them day to day,managers want players who will fit in with their plans,that will work together.once benitez receives some decent backing i think we will have a really good team.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:51 pm
this is the worst article ive read on this site. maybe thats what your going for to drum up traffic. Do you even watch liverpool games? You’re a fan of babel but think lucas passes like a girl? Did you see him own carrick and scholes. never a miss placed pass. The kid is 22 and while he is not fabregas he has promise. And you blame keane on benitez? Everyone but the author understands that benitez never wanted to buy him.
And read the posts above to inform you about the finances of the club.
isaac hunt - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:57 pm
did anybody actually read all of that? i got a few lines in the gave up and fell to sleep!
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 4:57 pm
anonymous 4;51 you got it spot on.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Johnny Carter did apparently no research but wrote a 2 part thesis.
hahahaahahahah
dave - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:11 pm
johnny carter works in a whore house and goes into the rooms to empty all the used condoms onto his cart to cart away,yes i can talk a load of shit too!
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Johnny carter is an idiot!
Retryboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Anon at 4.24 doesn’t matter if its net or gross rafa has spent a fortune fact. Rafa has spent £242.6m gross brought in £113.28m = £129.32m net spend in the same period chelsea-£196.75m net spend. United-£44.1m net spend. Arsenal-£31.45m
Profit!! Alright he inherited a weak squad but come on over £150m difference to Wenger! No one should ever blame lack of transfer funds again after reading those figures any decent manager could build a squad that already had hyppia, carragher, gerrard, riise with £250m. He has had the money its all on him now has been for a while sooner people realise it and stop making excuses the better.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Boring anti Benitex article!!TYPICAL FICKLE SUPPORT!!BACK THE MANAGER INSTEAD OF MOANING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:24 pm
retardboy
the fact that you dont understand the distinction between net and gross speaks volumes. if Arsene Wenger is the standard to be judged by there isnt a manager in the world who lives up to that.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:27 pm
“It seems that Rafa Benítez has immortality at Liverpool that transcends rational logic….”
So winning the Champions league, the FA Cup, The Lague Cup, The European supper cup counts for nothing then?
“The Anfield faithful appear deliriously content with Benítez irrespective of results, performance or expenditure….”
Expenditure? ITS ALL A MYTH – Last season (when we were clearly the best team in the country, thanks to Rafa) we were 3 squad players away from winning the league. SO… All our owners had to do was put thier hands in to thier pocket and invest in the team to take us to the next level. BUT……. How much did they fork out then?? A NET SPEND OF £0.00. We sold Alonso for £30M, we sold Arbeloa for £3M, we sold Leto for £1.5M, Pennant off the wage bill. We brought Aqualiani for £20M, We brought Johnson for £16M – but Portsmouth owed us £6M from the Crouch deal, so in reality it was £10M – So what are going on about EXPENDITURE for? The bottom line is money raised through transfers is supposed to be added to the transfer budget – not form the entire budget!! (YET ANOTHER LIE from our ‘owners’). Expenditure my arse.
Oh and what about the Robbie Keane money we recouped? (a player that Rick Parry brought in NOT Rafa. who wanted Barry – oh so does that answer your Lucas question?) Rafa hasnt seen that money has he??
The £60M the owners paid to RBS was Rafa’s transfer budget (which by the way didnt even reduce the debt , that only paid off the interest on the loan they promised they would never take out).
Are you blind? Are you stupid? Are you both? Are you work for the G&H press office?
Dont bother with part 2
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:37 pm
oi your all virgins, look at you, liverpool has cancer
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:38 pm
hey who ever wrote this…jonny FARTer…ooopppss carter …. go and read paul tomkins latest article on the official liverpool fc website…and learn something from that…does it count for nothing all the good rafa has brought to this club….he brought back the back where it belongs…if today we are even thinking of winning titles it’s because of him…he even got a better record than ferguson in his first 200 matches by 20-30 more wins…the 200th game being the victory against man u last week…pfff…i could go on and on…just like faithful lfc fans have been writing above…but i don’t think i can change tour foolishness…it knows no bounds apparently…
anyway fellow supporters…in rafa we trust!!!YNWA
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:39 pm
*back the club
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Oh and how many trophies has Wenger won since Rafa has been at LFC?? The answer is 0.
Another crap argument taken at random from the big bag of crap excuses.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:41 pm
“oi your all virgins, look at you, liverpool has cancer”
Yes – I agree, we have cancer of the American Owners
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:42 pm
There is no doubt you write well. Regrettably in this instance you appear not to have the remotest understanding of what it is you write about. Merely a biased and distorted agenda to demean based upon the limitless received ignorance that abounds concerning Rafa Benitez. The fact is the truth will serve your writing far better than invoking claptrap misrepresentations such as you have peddled in this piece. And that truth is most certainly out there if you care to delve beneath the mindless rhetoric. The choice is yours son.
Retryboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Anon at 5.24 gross is profit without deduction, net is profit after deduction simply put for a moron like you. Figures taken off talksport if you want to dispute them. Other anon idiots i do support the club simply saying if rafa succeeds its down to him, if he fails its down to him. He has had 5 years and the money the time is now to start delivering. Sorry for having higher expectations for our club than some of you do. A fickle supporter is someone who changes club at the first sign of trouble not someone who has supported the club his whole life and will do no matter what but has a different view than you. Suggest you buy a dictionary and share it with the bloke who doesn’t know the difference between net and gross.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Martin O’Neill!!!!
Man for the job!!
...samlfc.... - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Rafa has ben a massive success for the club, he single handedly took us from trying to get 4th spot into title challengers..people will sa yeah but Samlfc he aren’t title challengers now aren’t we! well technicaally we can still win and i know it is ambitious ut here me out!
First of all yes we lost 5 won 6 drawn 0 but Man utd get lucky wins, Arsenal are still very unpredictable as they can easily have a bad game and everyone knows that and Man city played really crap against Brum seriously they kep giving the ball away everytime they got it and B’ham med a open goal, hit the post and had a penalty saved and Man city had their defence ripped apart by them!! i watched 3 Mancity games and in all 3 they playe awful and 2 were draws and one was a win. So what i’m saying is everyone is losing points and are looking very bad when they play…….i didn’t include Chelsea as they are playing well and are winning but they have played the easier teams so far with us excluding
Second point is we have been plagued with injuries and in the whole season we haven’t had our main squad out in any of our games however we still have time and soon we will finally have our strongest squad so games will get easier.
My third point is This is Liverpool we never say die and we won’t start now sure we are in a rough patch now but remember this when we were losing to AC Milan in istanbul did we giveup? no! in the Fa cup final against West ham did we give up? no!, when we lost 2 of our C.L group stage ties and drawn another about a season or so ago did we give up? no!
so what im saying is WE ARE LIVERPOOL FC whenever give up however hard the challenge is ahead of us!, we have had worse situations than this before and our squad will soon be at its strongest!
Even though Rafa has been under fire as of late but i still hve that little bit of faith in him as he has taken us into some serious sh*t before and has taken us out of it better than what we were before we went into trouble! and even if we don’t win the title gaining C.L would be second priority in the league and of course the C.L and FA cup. There is still hope of brining a trophy i know the Prem is what we want but a Trophy is better than no trophy
So keep Faith everyone!
Mark G. - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:56 pm
This piece of garbage was written by Mr. I am the Biggest Ass out there, and I know it, but I also know how to yank the chains to get the idiots, hiding in the bushes, to l jump out and salute. Hello Donovan Ried, John Carter’s separated at birth benign twin!
...samlfc.... - November 2nd, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Spelling mistake is should say we never give up after the we are liverpool fc bit!
dave - November 2nd, 2009 at 6:03 pm
too right samlfc spoken like a true fan! unlike some fans who would rather jump on the critics band wagon instead of supporting our club.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Martin O’Neill for the job?
Of course with his track record of winning ………..err…………well nothing!
Retryboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Notice all the idiots that preach about backing the manager show their support anonymously to hide all their previous opinions that they have no doubt have changed day in day out. Grow some balls and log in stand by what you say. Lots of people on here have different opinions than me but i respect them and a lot of times what they say makes me see things a different way. That can never happen with an anon poster because they don’t even have enough belief in what they are saying to put their name to it.
Hoogleboogybugleboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 6:23 pm
My argument is always the same to people who say “Sack Benitez”, “Liverpool will never win the league under him” etc, etc. The list of premier league winning managers is very short so if a new manager is appointed to replace Benitez and he isn’t on that list thenhe is no more qualified to manage Liverpool than Benitez and it would be a step backwards.. Benitez has done as good a job as anyone could have done in the time and restraints put upon him and better than most. The man loves the club, he lives and breathes football 24/7 and he has a burning desire to win trophies. What else could anyone ask.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Benitez has 115 wins in 200 games. That open mouth gum chompin dumb scot only had 85 in his first 200. There are brighter days ahead. Dont be so quick to lose the faith YNWA!
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 6:31 pm
its not bout supporting rafa or not!!!!!!!!!!!!its bout getting behind the team……….that means getting behind the manager too………..a manager’s part of the team aint he????????so just get behind the team and help them get over this period….
to the person who wrote this article………….for the 2nd part, make sure u dont use heavy words to make it understandable to everyone…….these blogs are supposed to be easy to understand…………..and dont give ur personal opinions that are wrong and talk bout FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!
dave - November 2nd, 2009 at 6:39 pm
caught offside wont let me post the link to an article about all of benitez signings,he has not spent as much as anyone thinks,the problem is he has not been given the backing since the yanks took over.to check out all his transfers and an eye opening post,that will make you see it differently,go to gamebetting dot co dot uk,then go to the football blog and then scroll down to the myth that benitez has spent 200m
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 6:46 pm
So mister “I’m not anaonymous” is Retryboy your surname or christian name?
The mind truly does boggle at the thought processes of some folk.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 6:52 pm
that’s a great article dave it’s a shame journo’s couldnt write something like that stating facts,but they always want to make up bullshit,i think caught offside would’nt let you post the link cos it is 10 times better than the shite on here.
Mark G. - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Retryboy, in case you haven’t noticed, I support the manager, Mr. Rafa Benitez, as many others proudly displaying their names with their posts. I thought you did as well, give a conditional support to Rafa,based on your postings from last week. I guess, loss to Fulham might have changed your frame of mind. Whatever you may think of Rafa, I support wholeheartedly, naming all the posts on this forum.
YNWA
Retryboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Sure your mind boggles at getting dressed in the morning. Having a tag attached to all your comments at least means you know which people are saying what, doesn’t mean you take windy walks with them but you can see when someone is being a hypocrite.
RaNE - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:05 pm
There are many people talking about facts, and this article for me anyway is just a plain attack at rafa. Yes times now are tough for liverpool but there is no need to chuck the manager out after a bad run of result by the way if you havent noticed sometimes it trends on with the current manager being sacked then the next and continuing on a few more. To really discribe this theroy i can only really say chelsea who have now finally got there manager or championship club QPR who also seem to have found theres.
Many People are also saying about SAF and it really does show the job rafa has done to liverpool improving the results, improving the team ( youth aswell) and even bringing some tropheys to anfield and if you are going to say but its no enough we need a new manager because we arnt going to win the league or anything else for that matter, wake up its november we arnt far of the top of the table for the results weve been having and if you havent noticed the league ends in may not november.
YNWA
...samlfc.... - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Arsene Wenger had 2 or 3 awful seasons and alex ferguson had 5 at the start of his career and about 2 or 3 in the later parts and they’re still managing their clubs so what makes us different after one bad run of bad luck?
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:12 pm
in the 5 years benitez has been there he has spent on average £16.6m
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:12 pm
a season
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:26 pm
excellent article dave
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Although I do think that rafa is a good manager, I have found myself becoming increasingly frustrated with his decisions and tactics recently. The fact is that our squad is not good enough and rafa must take responsibility for that! Just look at some of the strikers that we have allowed to leave over the past few seasons. KEANE, CROUCH, BELLAMY and to a lesser extent GARCIA. I think we also need to address our lack of natural wingers in the squad, just look at some of the great talent that we could of bought?
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:35 pm
excellent article there dave,now that is a true liverpoolfan who wrote it supporting benitez and using facts,i’m sure if some of the so called liverpool fans on here read it,they would change their minds about some of their comments.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Another note on a journo not doing his reasearch:
“And who spends £19million on an injured player? Nobody”. That’s why Benitez insisted on paying in installments for Aquilani, with the first one being just £5m!!
John Conor - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:39 pm
I though this should be published so idiots like Retardboy can see the REAL facts!
So rafa benitez has wasted over £200m on signing crap players,not true.
Facts! is what the man himself uses so facts we will use to defend him.
here is all the players benitez has bought and sold.
2004/05
£2m – Josemi: peanuts and was moved on in a swap for Kromkamp 18 months later
£1.5m – Antonio Nunez: part of the Michael Owen deal and filled a gap for a while. Peanuts.
£10.7m – Xabi Alonso: Massive success and sold for £30m+ in the summer when he wanted to leave
£6m – Luis Garcia: Massive success and sold to Athletico Madrid for £4m
Free – Pelligrino: Stop gap that allowed us to rest Sami for league games, benefitting us massively in Istanbul. Now on the coaching staff.
£6.3m – Fernando Morientes: Pretty much everyone made up when we signed him, top class, but never settled. Sold for £3m to Valencia.
£1m – Scott Carson: One the most highly rated young keepers around. Lost out through injury and signing of Reina when Dudek left the club. Sold for £3.25m.
Total bought: £27.5m
Free – Marcus Babbel: Released to Stuttgart at the end of his career.
£2.5m – Danny Murphy: Xabi Alonso signed to fill the role Murphy had in the side
£8.5m – Michael Owen: Wouldn’t sign a new contract and sold before he left on a free. He’s done nothing since that is a masterstroke with hindsight.
Free – Stephane Henchoz: Released to Celtic at the end of his career
Total sold: £11m
A total of £16.5m net spend in his first year at the club, with the vast majority of that being spent on Xabi Alonso.
2004/05 net spend: £16.5m
2005/06
£240,000 – Antonio Barragan: Kid for the future. Sold for £675,000 to Deportivo a year later.
Free – Boudewijn Zenden: Signed for nothing and released for nothing. Did a job for us.
£6m – Pepe Reina: In the top 3 or 4 keepers in the world now and still young. One of Rafa’s best signings.
£5.6m – Momo Sissoko: Brilliant for a few years, had that eye injury and sold to Juventus when his form dipped for £8.2m. Replaced by Mascherano.
£7m – Peter Crouch: One signing I did question but proved to be a great bit of business. Turned him from a laughing stock into an international. Sold for £11m.
Unkown – Miki Roque: Kid bought for peanuts. Sold again for an unknown amount.
£150,000 – Jack Hobbs: Highly rated 16yr old signed from Lincoln. Didn’t progress as hoped and sold to Leicester for a reported £1.5m, although figure not confirmed.
£190,000 Besian Idrizaj: No idea who he is
£1.5m – Mark Gonzales: Cheap player to provide back up for the left wing. Sold for £3.5m to Real Betis.
Exchange – Paul Anderson: Swapped for John Welsh. Sold for £250,000.
Exchange – Jan Kromkamp: Swapped for Josemi. Later sold for £1.75m
£5.8m – Daniel Agger: Blighted by injuries but potentially top class and great signing for the money.
£250,000 – David Martin: Young reserve keeper
Free – Robbie Fowler: Pay as you play deal and no risk involved. Scored a few goals. Released in the summer.
Total bought: £26.73
Free – Vladimir Smicer: Out of contract and released. Played a small part in Istanbul.
£3.5m – El Hadji Diouf: The best £3.5m Rafa has ever recieved.
Free – Pellegrino: Filled the gap in the last 5 months of the previous season, not good enough and released.
£2m – Alou Diarra: Sold for £2m. One of Houllier’s buys.
£2m – Antonio Nunez: Bought for £1.5m and now sold for £2m when didn’t work out.
£6.5m – Milan Baros: A Houllier signing sold at a profit. He’s done nothing since.
Exchange – John Welsh: Swapped for Paul Anderson
Exchange – Josemi: Swapped for Kronkamp.
Total sold: £14m
2005/06 net spend: £12.73m
2006/07
£6m – Craig Bellamy: Good signing and later sold for £7.5m to fund Torres deal.
£2m – Gabriel Palletta: Played a few league cup games, not good enough and sold for £1.2m
Free – Fabio Aurelio: Very injury prone but a good player when fit. Great signing for nothing.
£6.7m – Jermaine Pennant: Second choice after missing out on Alves. Ran his contract down and released. Attitude stank.
£9m – Dirk Kuyt: Has his critics, but has been brilliant for the money. 15 goals last season from wide and vital to the way we play. Ultimate pro. Great signing.
£200,000 – Nabil El Zhar: Few cameos last season and improving. Injured now. Promising still. Peanuts.
£750,000 – Astrit Ajdarevic: No idea who he is, and released on a free to Leicester.
Loan – Daniele Padelli: Reserve keeper, made one appearance and never seen again.
Undisclosed – Jordy Brouwer: Young reserve.
£2.5m – Alvaro Arbeloa: Bargain signing, great service for a few years and sold for £3.5m when running his contract down.
Loan – Javier Mascherano: Rescued from West Ham, now one of the best defensive midfielders in the world and will probably be sold to Barca this summer for a massive profit. Paid £18.6m for him a year later at end of loan deal.
Total bought: £27.15m
£200,000 – Zak Whitbread: Youngster
Undisclosed – Bruno Cheyrou: Houllier flopped, sold for a reported £1.5m.
£3m – Fernando Morientes: Didn’t work out. Cut his losses.
Free – Didi Hamann: Great servant, released at the end of his career
£675,000 – Antonio Barragan: Paid £240,000 for him.
£2m – Djimi Traore: Houllier signing and daylight robbery getting £2m for him
£500,000 – Neil Mellor: Signed as a kid and did a job for a while. Not good enough and released.
£1.75m – Jan Kromkamp: Nunez bought for £2m, swapped for him, who then sold for £1.75m. Stop gaps at minimal expense.
£525,000 – Darren Potter: Acadamy lad, not good enough and robbery getting that much for him.
£1.5m – Steven Warnock: Probably sold to cheap and looks a mistake with hindsight. Good squad player.
Free – Salif Diao: The clearout of Houllier’s flops continues.
Total sold: £10.15m
2006/07 net spend: £17m
2007/08
£5m – Lucas Leiva: Brazilian player of the year when signed. Could still go either way but a lot to prove.
Undisclosed – Krisztian Nemeth: Promising youngster currently out on loan in Athens.
£270,000 – Mikel San Jose Dominguez: Youngester plays in the reserves.
£1.8m – Sebastian Leto: Left winger signing but refused a work permit. Sold for £3m.
£20.2m – Fernando Torres: Bargain of the century
Free – Andriy Voronin: Free transfer to strengthen the squad. Plays well in Germany, garbage over here.
£5m – Yossi Benayoun: Took a while to settle but now a key player. Superb signing and an absolute bargain.
£11.5m – Ryan Babel: Highly rated dutch international. Absolute waste of space. Bad signing on reflection, but nobody knew how he’d turn out. Still got potential but he can’t be arsed.
Undisclosed – Charles Itandje: Back up keeper signed for peanuts. Now released.
£1.3m – Emiliano Insua: Youngster who is now a full Argentinian international and massive potential. Bargain.
£6.5m – Martin Skrtel: Been off form this season so far, but brilliant last year and a good signing for the money.
£18.6m – Javier Mascherano: Completion of loan deal
Total bought: £70.7m
£2.7m – Florent Simana-Pongolle: Houllier youngster sold wanting first team football.
£100,000 – Daniel O’Donnell: Kid sold
Free – Jerzy Dudek: Released at end of contract
Free – Zenden: Released at end of contract
Free – Robbie Fowler: Released at end of contract
£4m – Luis Garcia: Wanted to return to Spain. Great service.
£6m – Djibril Cisse: Houllier signing sold to part fund Torres deal.
£7.5m – Craig Bellamy: Sold at profit to part fund Torres deal
£3.5m – Mark Gonzales: Signed for £1.5m and sold when didn’t work out.
£1.2m – Gabriel Palletta: Bought for £2m but never worked out. Young defender.
£3.5m – Chris Kirkland: Houllier signing. Injury prone and wanted first team football.
£8.2m – Momo Sissoko: Great signing, good service, sold when lost his form at a profit.
Total sold: £36.7m
2007/08 net spend: £34m
2008/09
Free – Philip Degen: Garbage, but free.
£7m – Andrea Dossena: Italian international left back. Hasn’t settled. Bad signing.
£3.5m – Diego Cavalieri: Reserve keeper. Only played league cup games so far.
£1.5m – David N’gog: Young French striker. Promising.
£19m – Robbie Keane: Everyone made up when we signed him. Didn’t work out and sold back to Spurs for £16m.
£8m – Albert Riera: Spanish international. Started well but jury still out.
Total bought: £39m
£4m – John Arne Riise: Good servant but form tailed off. Snapped their hands off at £4m.
Free – Harry Kewell: Harry who?
Undisclosed – Anthony Le Tallec: Houllier youngster finally released. Fee not known.
£11m – Peter Crouch: Laughing stock bought for £7m. Great signing. Wanted first team football.
£2.25m – Danny Guthrie: Youngster from Acadamy thought not good enough.
£3.25m – Scott Carson: Injury prone and Reina now first choice. Sold at profit.
Undisclosed – Steve Finnan: Sold for a fee believed to be £1m
£16m – Robbie Keane: Didn’t work out.
Undisclosed – Jack Hobbs: Young defender that didn’t progress. Sold for believed to £1.5m.
Total sold: £36.5m
2008/09 net spend: £2.5m
2009/10
£17.5m – Glen Johnson: Big fee, but has been brilliant so far.
£17.1m – Alberto Aquilani: Injured so far but meant to be a class act. Highly rated in Italy.
£2m – Sotirios Kyrgiakos: Last minute signing to fill Hyypia’s shoes. Only money we had to spend.
£160,000 – Daniel Ayala: Young defender, played a few times this season and looked promising.
Total bought: £36.76m
£250,000 – Paul Anderson: Youngster that didn’t progess.
Free – Jermaine Pennant: Out of contract. Poor signing.
Free – Miki Roque: No idea who he is. Bought for peanuts.
£3m – Sebastian Leto: Signed for £1.8m but didn’t get a work permit. Had to sell.
£3.5m – Alvaro Arbeloa: Wanted to leave and out of contract in the summer.
£30m – Xabi Alonso: Wanted to leave. Bought for £10.7m. Great signing.
Total sold: £36.75m
2009/10 net spend: £10,000
Total Players Bought: £228,976,000
Total Players Sold: £145,100,000
Total Net Spend: £83,876,000
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:46 pm
is that me you are referring as retardboy john or is it retryboy?
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:47 pm
that is part of the article from gamebetting dave was trying to link to,the rest is quite interesting also
Mark G. - November 2nd, 2009 at 7:56 pm
1. A lot of venom spat at Rafa recently is based on the recent losses to smaler clubs. Honestly, do you think any other manager would have done better, using a half strength teams, due to injuries.
2. Example of ignorant criticism, how many observers screamed out to high heavens, when Rafa took Nando off at 60th minute against Fulham. Now, it turns out, his not really healthy and may not play against Lyon. And on top of that non-participation of Agger, Johnson, Skrtel, N’gog were due to their injuries (I know Skrtel came in late).
3. Is Rafa responsible for Gerarrds and Torres chronic groin/hamstring conditions, or does some blame goes to national managers ignoring their status and insisting on their participation in national teams, even though, they meant nothing.
4. Some critics, have been calling LFC a 2 men team, others scream about Rafa spending tons of money. Are saying we should be five men team, while spending less? Is there anybody who critize spending 60 mln pounds (which by the way is about half of the net spending since he took over) on Nando, Masch and Aquilani (I know it is early, but I think Alberto will a great player for us).
5. Gentlemen should not discuss facts, only their interpretations. Should we check our facts, before posting immature, emotional criticism of the problems besetting our club this season. And once again, set your expectation according to our resources vis a vis our competitors. We are not ruling the roost anymore. We can’t outspend them anymore, we have to outsmart and outlast them through smarts and patience.
John Conor - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:00 pm
All in all Rafa has been fantastic for the club, in fairness he has made some extremely questionable decisions in both signings and at times squad selections (Why was Aquilani not on the bench on Sunday?), but he’s brought us on leaps and bounds since Houllier and still has time to turn things around this season!
We’l all be in a better position to form such opinions in May and at any rate sacking the manager now would be nothing short of suicide!
And can some of you’se give me some viable options to replace him? Because I cant see many out there!
John Conor - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Retryboy, i just thought ur take on it was quite fitting!
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:04 pm
i was in the stand at craven cottage and when torres went off i knew for a fact that this was due to not being fully fit,i think you will find the total net spend is £83,876,000 mark g.none the less good post mate
Donavan Ried - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Can see that i failed to ask the question correctly again….LOL ….. It is more about our system than the players mentioned , other have come to liverpool and struggled, not just the one’s mentioned, does not and one else see some thing wrong?…… Players come here and fail to improve ….. yet go esle were and play great football Florent Sinama-Pongolle is playing better for atletico Madrid fc than he ever played for us……. I ‘m not going on about why players were sold ie bellamy, and to say that Fernando Morientes could’t handle it is luaghable …… He was the higfh goal scorer in the CL playing against the best opposition nor do i buy into the whole ” Pace of the EPL” BS ….. Fiorentina didn’t look to bothered about the so called pace of the EPL to me….., infact they ran us off the park ….. So why???
Mark G. - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:08 pm
John Connor, Aquilani wasn’t on the bench due to virus infection.
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:08 pm
john conor aquilani has a virus,like all the other players who were not involved there is reasons and i think a manager and coaches who work with these players on a day to day basis know better than any of us if they are fit enough to play
Donavan Ried - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:10 pm
John Conor – November 2nd, 2009 at 7:39 pm …….. And how more has it cost us in wages for these flops????
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:11 pm
yeah sinama pongolle is a bench warmer for a team sitting 3rd bottom in la liga,premier league and champions league is totally different.
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:16 pm
wages are taken from the revenue,i think the bit what john conor posted from gamebetting dot co dot uk was just to show the net spend on transfer’s was not as much as the journo’s and critics believe
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Kop King
Rafas rant was not clap trap it was true you fergie bum licking mancunian vomit.
Mark G. - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:25 pm
1. Just want to add to my earlier post, if you add the fee for Glen Johnson to Nando, Aquilani, Masch fees the total would be appr. 80 M, almost as much as net spending. Does anyone have problem with these purchases?
2. Also regardless, how we appraise our youngsters aren’t we better of in that department than 5 years ago?
3. Are we a competive team when healthy? If your answer is I do not know, I understand. We have not been healthy for one game this season.
4. Do not forget that we played without Gerrard and Torres for a big chunk of the season last year and almost snatched the championship? You keep adding a load to the strongest structure in the world, eventually it snaps?
5. Another point, I think Rafa, brought Aquilani to lessen the load
for Stevie (considering his health problems, I think he hopes Lukas may with time and experience become “a new Alonso” Laugh at your own peril!
John Conor - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Regardless of that Donavan getting on the managers back at this stage of the season is just stupid. He has enough stick to deal with from idiotic hacks such as Mr Carter here without his own fans at it too! The manager needs our backing so u should get behind him and stop being so fickle! The last thing we need is another 5 year plan!!
And to retardboy and mark g, i hadnt realised that, fair enogugh
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Wow, I was going to leave a comment about how poor this article is, but now that I read all these comments I almost feel bad for the writer. Yes, he’s completely wrong and we all know that Donavan Reid is the only other person stupid enough to support such an argument, but it is the lad’s opinion. No need to get mean.
The reason Benitez has had this revolving door of players is that when he took over, almost none of the players were going to be good enough, long enough, to make a real competitive squad going into the future. He would have loved to buy great players right away, but he had to make do with the money he had, and just tried to upgrade the talent. He’s done this a few times now, culling along the way, and we are left with a squad that is much better. So much better in fact, that if we lose midweek and aren’t competing for the Champions League, then we will all be in horror at the disappointment. Going into his tenure, I would have been quite jubilant with making it to the knockout stages as many times as we have, nevermind two finals and 1 trophy. If you had offered me the point totals Benitez has got, I would have gobbled them down in a second.
Don’t be so shortsighted fellows. This is a long-term project that has continued to make progress and we are nipping at united’s heals, yes, but we weren’t even close enough to taste their dust when Benitez began.
John Conor - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Agree with most of what you say there mark but that Lucas point is just ridiculous!
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:33 pm
I work for the guardian paper
I can confirm 100% that rafa will be sacked in the coming week
His replacement will be Jurgun Klinsmann
Thats is million percent confirmed
Straight from the horsey mouth
Donavan Ried - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Retryboy – November 2nd, 2009 at 6:06 pm ………”Notice all the idiots that preach about backing the manager show their support anonymously to hide all their previous opinions that they have no doubt have changed day in day out.” …… How so very true mate, how so very true
Mark G. - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:38 pm
John Conor, thanks for you kind words, I like your posts as well, Lucas’ future form is debatable, don’t forget his age and progress he has already made. Dunga already called him in to represent Brasil (probably to some extent due to future potential).
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:41 pm
lucas is young only 22 and improving,man utd paid more than double for anderson cos they have the funds,if rafa had that cash he would spend it more wisely,but he does not so has to wheel and deal,if you read the article at gamebetting it shows you rafa’s in and out the fees and you get the idea of how he has been buying and selling to get better players and the best he can as stop gaps with limited funds
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:43 pm
WE TALK ABOUT LUCAS A LOT BUT WHO KNOWS ABOUT HIS CONTRACT
LUCAS RADEBE IS GOOD BUT NOT WORTH 140K A WEEK
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:44 pm
mark g and john conor agree with what you say,donovan ried you are a disgrace to liverpool fans the world over and a complete knob head
Mark G. - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Anonymous at 8:33.
I do not work for the Guardian newspaper. I can confirm that Guardian print a lot of unsubstiantiated anti-Liverpool garbage, it must sell some copies. You have some spelling problem for start, I think you are a young undereducated and slightly deranged fan of Man U. maybe?
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:48 pm
MARK G
SPELLING IS BAD AS IM ON MY BLACKBERRY
BUT IT IS TRUE
THE JURGEN IS COMING
LIKE IT OR LUMP IT
ITS FACT
THE GUARDIAN IS AN A-BRAND MATE
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:49 pm
I DO LIKE STEPHEN GERRARDS HAIRCUT
I LIKE THE WAY IT SPIKES UP AT THE FRONT
CAN YOU NAME ANOTHER FOOTBALLER WITH A NICEHAIRCUT?
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:51 pm
RAFA IS GOING NOWHERE
HE LIKES LIVING IN LIVERPOOL, HE DRINKS IN ALL THE LOCAL PUBS AND HIS WIFE DOES AVON ACROSS THE CITY NOW
NO WAY HE WANTS TO LEAVE HIS COMFY LIFE
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:52 pm
yeah it’s got to be a man utd fan or maybe it’s donovan anonymously,but then he is probably a man utd fan anyway
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:57 pm
yeah i bought a few cosmetics from rafa’s wife,she is a nice lady and has settled in well,in fact i seen her last week and gave her a hand utting up posters for her ann summers party
John Conor - November 2nd, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Thanks Mark, much appreciated. I do realise this and last season was saying the same myself but its his level of inconsistency that gets me. He has showed glimpses of brilliance but they have been few and far between and unless he can perform at that level week in week out he will only become a liability. I really hope I am proven wrong because a the start I had a lot of faith in him but at the min I just cant see it.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Moronic tripe from a knuckle-dragging cretin.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 9:25 pm
So rafas wife is now doing the ann summers parties too
She is such an industrious lady
i know rafa is earning about 70,000 a year so they obviously bringing in around 85,000 in that household
Jammey gets
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 9:28 pm
well she is making a lot more than that,due to the players being away alot she sells their wives bucketloads of dildo’s
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 9:41 pm
good on her
Wonder if she does wife swapping
kopman - November 2nd, 2009 at 10:44 pm
I stand by benitez all the way. there is no such thing as a manager that makes no mistakes, if fergie did it everyone would defend him and start ranting on about his reasons.
Wenger hasnt won as much as benitez, yes he doesnt spend as much but whats the point in having money if you dont invest it in the team.
People talk about chelsea being so succesful, remind me how many managers have they had since we got rafa? in my opinion there must be orse problems there to have 5 managers in 5 years.
Where do i start with fergie he gets his own way everytime i see him coz he stamps his feet like a little girl and no ref will challenge him about it and he gets desicions his way like i have never seen before.
Also people keep saying about how rafa has spent 229 million since he was here, yes this may be so but unlike the other big clubs its been a very rare event that we can spend big on 1 player instead we have to cope with the scraps from the owners table when they feel like tossing rafa 6m here or 7m there, but yet nobody says that torres was our most expensive signing ever he has been banging goals in left right and centre whilst alex fergie pays way more for berbatov who isnt half the player torres is.
basically you either stand by rafa for the good things he has done eg. winning the champs league when nobody thought it was possible for us to do it, winning the f.a cup. bringing in some of the best players of our time for peanuts.
or you hate him for trying to bring in good players and do the best for the club, and taking off the wrong players in games (which i dont agree coz im sure he had his reasons)
you cant have the best of both worlds either back the manager or dont but if you dont then dont jump on the bandwagon when the press are slagging him down coz it isnt doing the club any favours it isnt just affecting the manager.
LIVERPOOL NEEDS ITS FANS TO STAND STRONG AND WEATHER THE STORM!
Retryboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Mark g obviously wasn’t referring to you purely the banks of anons. John conor..have to hold my hands up googled it and seen the article on talk sport immediately took it as talk sport the radio program. While the total spend comes out the same the amount generated in sales is massively different and so going back and looking at the address talk-sport.com/blogs/views.asp?id=115536 will teach me to read the full address and double check my sources. That said i still think spending £239m in total is enough to have built the squad with (gerrard, carragher, hyppia, riise already there) to his liking and for people not to be blaming funds. As people who have seen my posts regularly all season know though his transfer record is not something i have ever complained about i have listed it as one of the good points along with, commitment to us, the youth system etc… Its been his performances since the end of last season including the transfer window not selling players that aren’t good enough to fund a couple of quality signings and the fact that players like voronin, degen, kyrgiakos. Were signed when we had better young players in darby, kelly, ayala, nemeth, pacheco and when we get injuries it annoys me more than anything seeing these players not getting their chance. Don’t believe that changing the manager now would be the answer but people need to accept that rafa’s performances this year have been terrible and whilst not the only reason for the league place it is the main reason will always support liverpool and whilst rafa is in charge i will always hope and have to believe he will get it right because if he fails liverpool fail. What is so inconsistent is that people will judge players off what they see on the pitch but won’t judge the manager on the same or accept that his performances are the most important out of anyones.
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 10:57 pm
retryboy – go and bore someone else with your mindless twitter
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 10:58 pm
i saw rafa today eating corn on the cob , his chin dripping in butter
he was standing at a bus stop wearing jeans and a hoodie
retardboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 10:59 pm
kopman here is what rafa has spent,i suggest you read the article on this at gamebetting
Total Players Bought: £228,976,000
Total Players Sold: £145,100,000
Total Net Spend: £83,876,000
anonymous - November 2nd, 2009 at 11:16 pm
To Whoever is Posting Comments CLAMING to be In the Newspaper
Newspapers do news that happened, hense why its called news any rumours/ predictions isnt news but a prediticion of what might happen. If You are somehow in the paper Mr.Ano Itll cost liverpool 20mil to get rid of rafa ( Money we dont have might i add) Plus Even more money to hire klinnsman so please Mr Newspaper man Please Stop posting crap rumours on this site which isnt true because your just embarressing yourself.
Mark G. - November 2nd, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Retryboy, I was a very active participant in team sports in my youth Voleyball and football were 2 sports when I was competing at the highest at level. As you may know in the olympic voleyball you have 6 people on the floor at any time. Football, we all know the rules. When “our Stevie G. and Nando” were not available for injuries we were massacred against teams, we would beat normally. When on top of it, our “Alonso” moved to his girlfriend high school we were a laughing stock. The coach was the same thruout. (Some people, of course may guess, my teams were better during my absence). It is a very basic example. You can’t win a Formula I race, with one or two cylinders misfiring
kopman - November 2nd, 2009 at 11:20 pm
yeah retardboy i was just stating what others have been saying.
Retryboy - November 2nd, 2009 at 11:59 pm
Mark g i don’t believe we are a 2 man team in the slightest think we disproved that theory enough times last season. I believe in the best 20 players in the squad and in the youngsters that have proven themselves for years in the reserves. Problem is the other 10 or so players in the squad that aren’t good enough blocking the young talents progress. We’ll see in january if these finally get cleared out and 1/2 quality additions bought in and the youngsters trusted to be back ups.
Anon at 10.57 err… No, if you don’t like it don’t read it
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 12:08 am
kopman u are just stating the amounts thrown in by journalist’s about the amount rafa has spent to make it a more interesting story and so the can criticise him further.go to gamebetting.co.uk then the football blog read the article about the myth that benitez has spent £200m + and then you will realise how wrong the journo’s are
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 12:25 am
i think retryboy and donnovan are on their own here with their complete tripe. we all know donnovan lives in london or ireland or somewhere and is one of those dirty hangers on we all hate. he has obviously never been to a match and doesnt know what commitment means and therefore will never have a successful relationship with anyone but the mother that still brings him snacks at hes computer for him to insert into hes 40-something year old unkempt face.
im sure the fact of the 11 players being injured on sunday were better than the players we had out there had nothin to do with us losing.
the injured 11
—————————–cavalieri———————-
johnson———skrtel————agger——-kelly
el zhar——aquilani————-aurelio——riera
—————————-gerrard———————
—————————ngog————————-
without doubt this 11 is better than the 11 we sent out vs fulham. theres more flair in midfield and defence with a more on form and settled defensive unit. only real weak link is ngog but he can be relied on to finish.
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 12:26 am
the above post is me and so u dont say im hidin i have posted previously as John
John - November 3rd, 2009 at 12:33 am
there is that better? plus can anyone tell me how to change my tag so it has a pic coz i have this rather amusing one i just found
Mark G. - November 3rd, 2009 at 12:33 am
Retryboy, I was ilustrating the principle, of the team’s performance suffering as a result of injuries. LFC dissaproved the 2 players theory last year. So we agree here again. Don’t forget that at some games this year we were missing not just 2 but 5 or 6 first team regulars.
For arguments sake, why don’t you put a list of the best 22 players (2 per position), or the first and second teams, as you see it.
Also, do remember, that we have some players, for whom no teams are beating the path to our door for. Some call it science, others art, I call it finding the best buyers for a player. I hope, you are not calling for a mass release of all players, you don’t like.
The other point to make, is if you are highly critical of a player, like Voronin, you don’t expect some team to came and pay a lot of money for him, do you.
Rafa, as John Conor, has ilustrated v.well earlier today, has been doing a very capable job, liquidating unwanted assets.
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 12:44 am
Sorry guys i mostly agree he is too busy thinking of the next game meanwhile we lose the one were playing. Guys we call some of our players shiit just remember who bought them it hurts me to say but i also think its slowly getting time for Rafa to move on.
Aquaman - November 3rd, 2009 at 12:56 am
John: I used the website http://www.gravatar.com
Seems to work fine for me.
John - November 3rd, 2009 at 1:01 am
to the last anonymous: rafa has only had control over the transfers since he signed hes new contract. previously he had to ask rick parry to sign them. a prime example is robbie keane: benitez asked for barry but instead parry signed keane and told benitez to sell players if he wants barry, which then caused the whole alonso saga because pre-last season alonso couldnt be considered in the same class as barry. he just happened to have a blinding season which made people question benitez wanting to sign barry in the first place when at the time most liverpool signings were excitied about barry and had no qualms sellin alonso as makeweight.
Aquaman - November 3rd, 2009 at 1:14 am
Gah! John: I have a post stuck in moderation because I posted a website. I got my pic using www(dot)gravatar(dot)com.
Retryboy - November 3rd, 2009 at 2:34 am
John… Donovan has more class in his little finger than you have in your whole body your pathetic personal attack is something he would never stoop to. If you don’t agree why don’t you try debating the points he makes. The same back four played at arsenal, babel played the last half hour up front at arsenal just like fulham and voronin played the same role for the full 90 minutes against arsenal. So obviously that was the plan for the game all along. How many times have we ever gone through a week without hearing agger is doubtful, skrtel has a knock? Wouldn’t suprise me to see a back four of carragher, skrtel, agger, insua/aurelio in europe as johnson is still doubtful, kelly out, degen not in the squad. not saying there were no knocks or illness but if it wasn’t champions league coming up most would have played. Rafa looked past fulham and gave up on the game at 1-1 taking benayoun off was proof enough.
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 2:35 am
Benitez has gone beyond a joke.
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 3:41 am
as i said rety boy. u and donnovan are as good as alone here with ur un-supportive behaviour uncharacteristic of a liverpool supporter.
“The same back four played at arsenal, babel played the last half hour up front at arsenal just like fulham and voronin played the same role for the full 90 minutes against arsenal” yeah and whats ur point?
donnovan does my (and jus about everyone elses) heads in with hes retarded drivel and tripe. we could win every trophy and he still wouldnt be happy. im not even gonna try balancing arguements with someone with as closed of a mind as him. yeah u would have to be inhuman not to doubt benitez or be frustrated at some decisions but then ur not the one makin them and he wouldnt do it for no reason. maybe u and donnovan should restrict urselves to playin football manager.
Aquaman - November 3rd, 2009 at 4:07 am
anon above:
Neither Donavan nor Retryboy are forcing you to read their comments, but the one thing that they are doing is having the courage to post under a name and stand up for what they believe in. It’s fair to say that this website is filled with more pro Rafa people than anti, which makes their courage even more applaudable.
I don’t agree with everything they say but neither do I disregard it simply because it is them that are saying it. On more than one occasion they have made points which have made me stop and think. They’ve changed my misconceptions more than once as well.
Even though some of the things they say hit home rather uncomfortably, this is a good thing. Without doubt, what is faith? Do you really want a site with everyone posting “Gosh that Rafa is good. Even though we lost the game he sure was amazing.” I’d be gone in a flash if this was true.
But if they say things which are uncomfortable, how about seeing (and understanding) their point and then arguing against it if you don’t agree. Name calling is childish and deliberately missing the point proves nothing. In fact both can be interpreted to mean that you couldn’t refute their statement logically and are instead hiding behind a defense of insult.
All things considered we need people on both sides in order to keep our feet on the ground. In the good times we need the critics to keep our expectations in check while in the bad we need the die-hards to keep our chins up. So keep posting, we need to hear more, but please have the courage to stand by your comments by posting under a name.
Aquaman - November 3rd, 2009 at 5:52 am
Heh. Now that I read through all of the comments I fear I may have misjudged you (assuming that these comments were all made by John), and so you have my apologies.
My other points remain true though.
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 6:26 am
NOW if we had you on the Liverpool board we may win something. IN my opinion your article is 100% correct. Rafa is a spent force. He has been a liabilty to pool for 3 years. He will not come close to winning the league as he doesnt have the tactical know how to use his players wisely, to buy the right type of player, and he is the worst man manager I have ever seen. He is a 25 million pound total F**K UP
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 6:38 am
IN RAFA WE TRUST, IN RAFA WE TRUST, blah blah blah blah. You rafites are all the same. 2005 is a distant memory, what is fresh in mind is the appaling football we are playing under this joke of a manager. If you are right behind benetiz it is either you are a) a manure fan, b) a club stooge who must praise the fat git at all costs. He is a blight on the club with his constant excuses, and lack of responsibility that he takes for current performances. RAFA is the reason we will be outside the top 4, and after all you dickbrains stop banging on about how I’m not a true fan, and we have been eliminated from champ league and finished in 7th place, ask yourselves, “in rafa do i still trust”?
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 11:41 am
i cant believe you keep complaining about people not having a name to their posts when your posts are posted under aquaman,what the fuck is that all about aquaman you fucking retard.
BY JOHN DAVISON
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 3:17 pm
excellent article the man is not good enuff an the worst part is the deluded lpool fans has put him in this position of strength by the constant support for a manager who is simply not gud enuff, they forced the owners into offering him a new deal and now we r suffering as a result
Donavan Ried - November 3rd, 2009 at 4:06 pm
anonymous – November 3rd, 2009 at 12:25 am ……. “anonymous “…..Retryboy and I maybe alone here in what we are both saying, but two things you should think about, First is that Columbus was alone when he said that the world was round …… (The Majority is not always right)
Seccondly but Retryboy and i are always here come what may…. You don’t post with a name so no one really knows if you were calling for Rafa’s head after the Sunderland, or Fulham game do they?…….
As for the not going to Anfield.
I never said i had not been to Anfield, only that i do not get to go as often as i would like.Commitments. I have also seen ‘pool away on many a occassion.
As for the ……..”doesnt know what commitment means and therefore will never have a successful relationship with anyone but the mother that still brings him snacks at hes computer for him to insert into hes 40-something year old unkempt face.”……
Whatever!
To Aquaman
I would like to take i moment to apologise too Aquaman ……. Sorry, we got off on the wrong foot, I do respect what you have to say even if i do not agree with them from time to time. I will try to remember that i am not always right and that there are many ways to see things…..
Welcome to the site John ….
anonymousComment:
“i cant believe you keep complaining about people not having a name to their posts when your posts are posted under aquaman,what the fuck is that all about aquaman you fucking retard. BY JOHN DAVISON…….
In all fairness Mr Davison you can call yourself what ever you like,at least we know that it is “aquaman” posting a comment.
Aquaman – November 3rd, 2009 at 4:07 am …….. Just wanted to let you know that i have only just read this post and would like to thank you and let you know that my earlier apologize had nothing to do with this post, but more rather to do with the fact i was doing what i was accusing you of doing, labelling Supporters as this and that. It was not right and again i apologize.
Retryboy - November 3rd, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Mark g- you know you have along with john conor’s post actually given me an answer to the question that has driven me to despair with rafa… Why do inferior players get picked over better, younger players constantly and of course the only figure that was publicised all the time was how much he has spent not how much of that he has had to generate as you point out if you want to pick up a voronin or a degen and sell them for £5m you have to play them even if you know you have better young players in the wings because with all the young talent in the world you still need the established £20m stars as well. I did just think that rafa had a problem trusting youth and couldn’t see the quality of the youngsters in reserve but you have made me see it a different way.
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Retryboy:
Happy to be of service. Also:
1. You either trust Rafa or not. As long as he is the manager, I trust and support him. He’s been a loyal servant to LFC.
2. I can’t figure out, that some expect Rafa to be a perfect in all respects. He makes best decisions at any given time, having information far superior to ours, , using his ample experience, good instincts and input from his staff. Some of the moves work out brilliantly, some are o’key, some not so good. That’s life, show me someone who claims to be perfect all the time and we know he is a liar.
3. We as supporters, rely on reports from many sources, most of which come from media, many are biased, many are far from accurate, quite a few contain personal views and not solid facts. I think it is presumptious to render far reaching, self-rightous opinions using limited information. Again, I remind all of us how many of the well-wishers were up in arms, when Torres was taken off. It turned out he has hernia, and it seems, it was well thought decision taken to protect the long term well-being of our best player.
4. I hope for the best future for our youth, there is still a lot of work to be done there, we are not as loaded as Arsenal in talent. At last we have a program that we can trust will produce players for the our first team. I know you are as impatient as many of us to see them in action. Again, I trust Rafa is doing his best to bring them on stream asap.
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 6:17 pm
The previous is Mark G.’ post, do not know why my name is missing?!
anonymous - November 3rd, 2009 at 7:03 pm
y r u givin rafa for spendin all that in 5 yrs, had he been given that in his first ear, dont u think the squad would be better than wat he has?