COS contributor Aquaman takes a look at the players Rafa has ushered out of the Anfield exit since his arrival at the club.
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In my last article I discussed the amount of money that Rafa Benitez has spent on new players in his five years in charge. The flip side of the coin would, of course, be the players that he has sold during this time. This also gives us a chance to examine Rafa’s net spend as opposed to his gross.
A brief summary of the previous article. Rafa has bought 47 players for a total of 232 million pounds. Of the 47 purchses, 26 cost less than 5 mil each and 14.24 mil in total. This leaves the spending for the rest at 216 mil for 21 players (bearing in mind that Gerrard and Carra were already at the club).
Despite this, the argument remains that if 47 players have entered the club, then surely we have too many iffy players.
Well. In Rafa’s 5 years, 64 players have left the club. Some were sold, most were allowed to leave. of these 64 players, 20 were ones that Rafa bought himself. Interestingly of these 20, Rafa has made a profit on 10 of them (38.19 mil), and made a loss on 7 (31 mil). So while this equates to only a profit of 7.19 mil in total, this does mean that any losses that Rafa has made from bad signings (Pennant and Keane) has been more than recouped from his other transfer dealings.
So for all the comments of “Rafa buys too many players”, in truth the club has 17 fewer players than when Rafa arrived (granted a fair chunk of these may be Academy graduates so maybe we’re even).
Then there are the other 44 players from Houllier’s reign that Rafa has been ridding us of. All of these players were sold for 36.33 mil. Could this figure have been higher? Possibly. On the one hand it goes to show just how bad our squad really was.
Many of these players continued to serve the club until their contracts expired though (ala Sami, Steve Finnan and Dudek), while others were sold with only a year or so left (Riise, Sinama-Pongolle, Hamann and many more).
Since Rafa has regained all and more of his losses, this means that his transfer money has gone entirely into the current team. The players that Rafa has bought and are still with us cost 142.3 million pounds gross (Gerrard and Carra excluded, of course).
“Hang on”, I hear you cry, “that doesn’t make sense. Rafa has spent 232 mil hasn’t he?” Indeed he has, but remember where that money came from.
Let’s review.
232.69 mil has been spent by Rafa in 5 years. This was made up of:
142.3 mil – how much our current squad cost.
34.39 mil – players who were sold at a profit.
56.00 mil – players who were sold at a loss.
Now lets look at sales:
Rafa has sold 133.91 mil during his time at the club. This is made up of:
36.33 mil – recouped from inherited squad.
72.58 mil – recouped from players sold at a profit.
25.00 mil – recouped from players sold at a loss.
These two added together put Rafa’s net spend at 98.78 million pounds.
So there we have it. Rafa’s spending put on a plate. In my humble (or not so humble) opinion, Rafa has done pretty well.
The cynics will argue that the money he spent on bit players should have been spent on the first team. However this would have put our squad value at 135.11 mil (net spend + inherited squad cost) and would have carried no insurance that the players purchased would be any good.
As an example: if Robbie Keane and Jermaine Pennant had been bought this way, then their losses would have pushed our squad value down to 121.41 mil, in order to keep the net spend the same. The only place that I think Rafa could have done better would be the money he got out of his inherited squad.
I throw the argument open now. Argue as you see fit, but I think that Rafa has done an incredible job in the transfer market. In Rafa I do not always trust, but in the transfer market I most certainly do!
Related Posts:
Liverpool Set for Tempting £36m Mascherano Swap Offer: Rafa Benitez Ready to Offer Player plus Cash Exchange



anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Good Article. I like alot.
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
i have read ur both articles the previous one about spending and this one
well buddy your both articles are awesome
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Why, thank you. Glad you guys are enjoying them.
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
It’s shame that those pundits and journalists who earn a good living from the game don’t do research. They would rather parrot each others clap trap and feed it to the phone in morons and internet forum divs.
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
I keep asking why the Rafa bashers are so selective in their arguments, and to date have had no reply. These articles sum up exactly the full picture, rather than just a distorted slice that suits their agenda. Keep the perspective coming. Well done, Aquaman
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
I regret not reading the first article as i assumed , wrongly, it was more rafa bashing, very good article!
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Retryboy - December 4th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Sorry would rather have had murphy on the right the past years than kuyt, Finnan still here over degen and arbeloa, riise and Warnock over aurelio and dossena, kirkland over cavalieri, Hyppia over kyrgiakos, heskey over voronin… These players were already here so total cost £0m along with carragher and gerrard already there thats 9 of the squad for the past 5 years for nothing!! they were already here! Add alonso, bellamy, keane as quality players rafa hasn’t been able to keep and now babel who has been here for 2 years without rafa getting a tenth of his potential out of. The players he has brought in have generally been quality with some notable exceptions but there always will be but some of the players we have had that went for peanuts would walk into the squad now.
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
nice article aquaman –
Reds Lewis
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Retryboy: Not attacking you, just a reply.
Murphy left before Rafa got here, just like Owen.
Finnan was no long term solution. I agree that he should have stayed, but not as a starter. Instead of Degen? Maybe, but Degen is still younger, though not necessarily better. Plus he cost us nothing and could be sold at a profit in the future.
Kirkland was on loan for two years before he left. May have come to like first team football too much. This may be Rafa’s fault for sending him out, granted.
Keane, Alonso, Bellamy – So should we attack Mourinho for Shevchenko, SAF for Ronaldo, and Wenger for Adebayor? Granted these are three similar problems from three different managers, but the point is still valid.
Babel, I will grant you. Part Rafa’s fault for not managing him properly, and part Babel’s fault for not having Lucas or Yossi’s determination to push through even when the manager seems reluctant.
Warnock, I agree fully. At least over Dossena. Aurelio is about the same except that he’s always injured.
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Retryboy- Heskey is and was poor, 99% liverpool fans wanted him out. Kuty is an improvment. Kirkland wanted to leave, as did Hyppia. Bellemy tried to knee cap Riise, and riise was far to comfortable and gone stale. Football is not just kicking a ball, but dealing with peoples personalities. Every club and every manager over 6 years has this problem…. Arsenal, gallas, dairra, ade, henry as examples.
Murphy though for 2.5m……why rafa why…..same with finan.
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kermit - December 4th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
we can agree rafa has not spent badly
we can argue all day they he hasnt gotten the most out of the money he has spent
babel honestly waste of 11 million if he deciodes to continue not laying him
keane what a farcical scenario that was and showed rafa need to for control endangering the health of the club. i believe he purposefully played keane out of position to make him seem seem shit and prove a point to those upstairs harming the club as a whole in his greed for power.
xabi alonso- the problems started when xabi chose to stay to witness the birth of his kid iver playing a champions league match, what manager with half a brain wouldnt understand this situation
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kermit - December 4th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
and now fuck this i m hoping the french get a nightmare group including brazil mexico and the ovory coast and are beaten in all three games and go home shameful to their shithole of a country
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Donavan Ried - December 4th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Another great article Aquaman…. Well done…
But it does not matter which way you cut it Rafa sold X-amount of players a replace them with X- amount of players the fact that he did so not choosing “Quality” is down to Rafa, The bad buys are down to Rafa, and not making use of players correctly is down to Rafa ,,,,, spend the £4m-£6m extra. Buy “Quality”……
We had a couple of injured C.B.’s instead of using the reserves San José,Kelly,Ayala,Darby he brings in for £2m plus signing on fee and wages …. If we say his signing fee was £500k and wages are £2.5m then for the first year he cost us £5m and he as only made 3 appearances so far….
Are you telling me that one or more of the reserves could not have provided the same cover as Kyrgiakos??? …… On these types of things is where Rafa is found wanting……. He spends money quicker than Colleen Rooney….. And for no go reason…… He needs to first cut the squad to 28-30 players and keep it at that. ……….secondly Buy the quality second striker that we need, even if that is the only buy for that window….. Thirdly start playing the youth….. and lastly, Don’t buy unless you need to and not for the sake of it as Rafa tends to do….( by this I mean ever young player that he can get his hand on.
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
seems about right to me, people seem to forget that many of these players were a stop gap until he could find and afford better. Take for example Momo Sisosko sold for a profit when we got hold of Monster Masch. Another example is Gonzalez replaced by Riera eventually (im sure we would all prefer Silva, ima sure Rafea would too given the extra money). The list of theses replacements is huge and just goes to show how long the transition takes when you cant spend all that money at once like Man City have recently done.
YNWA
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
aquaman, watching a dvd the other day and owen left at the start of rafas season (august 2004), just lettin ya no, otherwise, great article, im a liverpool fan myself and i agree with this entirely
p.s. no im not a cockney liverpool fan or overseas fan im a scouser through n through
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
How much of this 98 mil was financed through Champions League and other winnings? I would imagine a fair amount. Taking that into consideration, Rafa has done extremely well in the transfer market with extremely limited resources (for a “Big Four” Premier League side).
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Retryboy - December 4th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Rafa sold murphy remember kicking off about it well and on the right would have done much more than kuyt over the years. Finnan was quality he and carragher had a rock of a partnership on the right of the defence as well as being the best crosser of a ball we had and we should have kept him as first choice right up until signing johnson where darby could have and should have taken over as deputy. Degen cost nothing? Players receive signing on fees of around £2m thats why they let their contracts run down never mind agents fees and wages for someone who has never played. We were giving carson chances over kirkland knew that kirkland would end up to be quality but it is a thankless task being understudy to one of the worlds best who is so young by Gk standards. Think kirkland would have been happy with cup games and being the no2 at a big club myself though. Alonso stated everything changed because rafa tried selling him the year before he went he said after that it was just a question of when he went not if, same as kirkland its the feeling of being wanted. keane was treated poorly and in my opinion a victim of the power struggle with parry ok rafa had to prove a point that barry was who he needed but in doing so he let go probably the no 1 player in the epl who could do both jobs of lone striker and 2nd. Bellamy if you wanted someone when torres was injured you would look at him and for the 6m we had him for! Aurelio was bought in to replace a player in riise who again had lost his way only because he was moved LM, LB week in week out he was a top LB who gave everything for us and is still only 29 Warnock, babel you have admitted to and you can’t really argue Hyppia and heskey over kyrgiakos, voronin as squad players, as i said before 9 players out of the squad he inherited are better than those we have here and he let keane, alonso, bellamy, crouch through his fingers who would make it as well add babel and riera who will probably be gone without us ever seeing the best of. Man management is a part of the job.
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
he may have done well financially . but the players he buys are SHIT excluding torres. OV COURSE . if he hadent as you put it inherited . steve g i dread to think where we would be now.also dont forget he wanted to off load xavi alonso for a lot less than we actually got in the end.cos he wanted barry an england internatinol for 12mill. Then later on said he wasent worth 12mill. trying to penny pinch lost us both players in the end. So no in rafa we defenatly cant trust. especially when we have to watch masscarano walk out the door in january. admitedly at a proffit. But who cares about money when he wont spend it wisely.the players been linked with us at the moment are all past there best or cant make it at there current club.In my opinion another step back.Inless we start buying big we will keep playing inept shit quality football.I said when we beat man utd it would paper over the cracks. and the same as happend with the everton result.I wish people would stop backing up benitez cos the fact is if we had the money to pay him off he would ov gone months ago !!!!!!!!! spota lfc 4 eva ynwa
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
aquaman if that is your real name
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
here here well said spota. great post wished every1 saw it our way . smudger ov kirby.y n w a
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Warren Bloggs - December 4th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Great article Aqua, really, really good.
It explains alot really when u think over the course of what 4-5 years? Rafa has spent the same amount of money on players that Mourinho did in his two and a half years at Chelsea and even less money then Mark Hughes and his City men have bought in a matter of months! We cannot blame Rafa for this, he has had to make do with what he has. Every time he has had a lot of money he has spent brilliantly in my opinion:
£11m Xabi Alonso
£18m Glen Johnson
£18m Javier Mascherano
£20m Alberto Aquilani
£20m Robbie Keane
£20m Fernando Torres
ETC.
Granted Keane did not take Anfield by storm but he is a great player and i agree it was Rafa’s fault for not utilising him but then again did he even want that transfer to happen?
Oh and for everyone saying with £100m i could buy better! Remember, this was not all in one go at times Rafa has only been able to sign players for £5m or more after being given a realtively low calibre squad, for crying out load Liverpool fc had Traore, Baros and bloody Biscan in there team when we won at Istanbul, a season coincedently we came 5th and have never done as bad since. Listen i’m not trying to be completely on the Rafa band-wagon here but we have to look at this realisticly. Yes, we are as big a club as Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Aston Villa, Tottenham etc but unfortunately with our budget we cannot compete! The way i see it although i would like a change of play, we have to be sensible, if the likes of MANCINI or VAN BASTEN or even…..god forbid……KLINNSMAN…..then we will be no better off without MONEY!!
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
to aquaman yes that is my real name
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guillem balague muppet - December 4th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
good post aquaman puts it all together not the usual crap put out to bash the manager with
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Warren Bloggs - December 4th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Rafa has said in the past he wanted players such as:
VIDIC
C. RONALDO
VILLA
AGUERO
D. SILVA
SIMAO
MILNER
ETC ETC.
but we could not affors them! Rafa does buy quality when given the money, one thing i would agree with however is that Rafa seems inept at buying ‘bargain buys’……………..
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
how can you say aquallani is a good buy . he hasent done nothing yet . and keane 23mill for 6 months . yeah write great buys with money.
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
get villa in top m8s wiv elnino. if we can raise the dosh this would realy sort out the who we play with torres situation. please rafa do the deal lar
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Thanks, Donavan. But I really do need some clarity on what you are expecting of Rafa.
What do you mean by “buy quality”. If Rafa had spent 135 mil (as I explain in my final paragraph) on 8 players would you have been happy? What if two of these players had not worked out for whatever reason?
Buying Alonso (11), Torres (20), Johnson (18), Masch (18), Babel (12), Keane (19) and Aquilani (20) cost us 118 mil. Remember that our entire squad cost 142 mil. That leaves 24 mil to fill 2 more starting places (including Gerrard and Carra) as well as our entire bench.
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
On the flip side of the coin, what do you consider a “bargain buy”? I posted this list on my last article, but here it is again. All of these cost less than 10 mil:
Luis Garcia
Fernando Morientes
Jose Reina
Momo Sissoko
Peter Crouch
Daniel Agger
Craig Bellamy
Jermaine Pennant
Dirk Kuyt
Yossi Benayoun
Martin Skrtel
Andrea Dossena
Albert Riera
There are some pretty damn good bargains in there. Some real crocks as well, but you can’t win ‘em all, but you can at least give credit that he has at least won as many as he lost.
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Retryboy - December 4th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Warren- milner and young cost the same as babel and kuyt. Johnson cost portsmouth 4m in 2007 so he was Redknapp’s bargain not Rafa’s Vidic and Evra were picked up for the same as dossena and skrtel. Ronaldo was at utd a year before rafa even took over. There were good players in the original squad he inherited gerrard, carragher, Hyppia, Finnan, riise, murphy, heskey, kirkland, Warnock its easy rolling off biscan, traore etc… Thing is you could do the same now with voronin, degen etc… Buying quality players for 20m doesn’t constitute a bargain to me except torres and mascherano. He has got some reina, agger, benayoun, alonso, bellamy the last 2 were definitely worth more to us than as profit though.
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
As for the Villa comment. Apparently you haven’t read a single word of the article.
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Retryboy - December 4th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Aquaman could turn your question around what does rafa expect out of an owner? Every penny of transfers back and 20m a season on top doesn’t sound that bad to me because thats what else the figures equate to.
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
I feel like I’m fighting alone here.
Retryboy: You can’t expect a manager to grab every single bargain that is available. Dwelling on bargains that other teams found is pointless. Every team has their own scout network and you can’t cover the entire globe. Bargains will get by. Even if Rafa had been talking to Vidic for months with the deal almost signed, if Man U come a-calling, then everything changes.
The job is not easy, and I’m not saying Rafa is perfect, but at the same time he is nowhere near useless. I for one trust his transfers more than anything else. How many “quality” crocks has Rafa bought? One, and even that was debatable. How many has SAF bought? Got an hour?
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Every penny of transfers back. Don’t make me laugh. I’m sorry, Retryboy, I don’t like to get in to squabbles, but that is ridiculous.
Yes Rafa gets 20 mil in transfer funds. I’m happy with that. Rafa is able to make that 20 stretch far enough to do what he needs. But in his 5 years in charge Rafa has spent almost precisely 40 mil every season, and he has always sold at least 20 mils worth of players. This screams loud and clear (to me at least) that he has an outright budget of 40 mil.
Do you think that he bought Kyrgiakos because he was top of the list? Of course not! But Rafa had already spent 38 mil on Aqulilani and Johnson. Which means (drum roll) that he only had 2 mil left. Even though he had sold Alonso (30), Leto (2), Arbeloa (3.5). Granted Alonso may have been in installments, if the rumors are to be believed (and personally, I don’t).
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Oh also (I’m sorry. I really hate doing this) Rafa has been here for 5 years granted but he’s had 6 summer transfer windows. Thus his 98.75 mil net spend does not equate to 20 mil per season. This was from the pre-yank days though. Since the yanks it has been 20 (except this season).
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Retryboy - December 4th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
In answer to your 6.53 post aquaman-aquilani and babel getting a game lol and with gerrard, torres, keane in the same team never happen! So i will do a squad aquilani would never have been bought if alonso hadn’t been sold so: reina-6 kirkland-0 johnson-18 Finnan-0 darby-0 riise-0 Warnock-0 carragher-0 agger-5.8 skrtel-6.5 Hyppia-0 kelly-0 alonso-10.7 mascherano-18.6 gerrard-0 benayoun-5 riera-8 murphy-0 babel-11.5 torres-25 keane-19 bellamy-6 heskey-0 thats 140.1m not bad eh? Just had to keep the decent players he had
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Retryboy - December 4th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Fair point on the amount of transfer windows aquaman don’t get me started on the kyrgiakos transfer he could have given Hyppia the same contract or trusted kelly, ayala and san jose as what equates to fourth choice.
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Retryboy - December 4th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
If he has spent £232m and has brought in £133m then obviously he has had every penny back from transfers and £100m on top aquaman! Whether thats enough is a different debate but it is a fact as written by yourself.
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Ryan Babel - December 4th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Which players are not available to play blackburn? i know torresand babel, but is that it??
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Retryboy - December 4th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Nobody was dwelling on bargains of other teams either was answering warrens list that apparently we couldn’t afford with players we signed at the same time as they were bought for the same money in the same positions. The only bargains i am focusing on are the ones he inherited and the ones he picked up himself and let go never even mentioned arsenal or Everton once which i would have done if i were throwing in bargains at other clubs. Its the choices of who has gone out the door more than anything i dispute with his transfer record and like i said before the ones from the original squad were for peanuts
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isaac hunt - December 4th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
aquaman = legend
retryboy = dunse
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Donavan Ried - December 4th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Aquaman – December 4th, 2009 at 6:53 pm…….. There were Quality Bargain players out there to be had, before the star of last season Rafa Could have had Podolski for £11-£14m and Schweinsteiger on a free. Podolski is class and better than Babel,N’gog and Voronin, can also play on the left ……..Schweinsteiger predominantly right, by can play in the middle, great passer of the ball,Beckhamques crosses and freekicks ,,,, Best friend Podolski …. would help one another settle, plus the Bundesliga is the nearest to the Premier league in Europe …….. Luis Figo when to Inter on a Free in 2005….. Huntelaar to AC for £13m…. Could have worked something with the Alonso deal, and got him cheaper … same goes for Sneijder ……Deco went to Chelsea for £8m ……But Podolski and Schweinsteiger is where we could have really gained from having….. He could have taken players on loan
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
phew. I apologise Retryboy. I let myself get worked up.
Now in a much more stable frame of mind, I shall reply.
7:42 pm: Yes, granted. A good squad and it would indeed cost as much as Rafa had (well near enough, some cash would be lost from not selling some of the players, but I get the point). The only problem with that team is that its essentially Rafa’s greatest hits. No manager gets every transfer right and its easy to have 20/20 hindsight. We don’t have to make the decisions when it matters. Rafa has countered this by making a profit off of his lesser buys.
7:48pm: I would have kept Sami as well, but I got the impression that he left for first team football. I’m happy to be corrected though.
7:52pm: Ok. I was in a bit of a huff when I wrote that comment so my point got lost. Let me try again in a more stable state of mind:
Rafa’s first transfer window was the 04/05 window. Since then he has been involved in 5 additional summer windows. In each of these windows he was indeed given 20 mil to spend. This was most recently evidenced by his purchase of Johnson before anyone was sold (Except, of course, Robbie Keane the January before).
Come the end of the same window Rafa had spent 38 mil on two players and needed a defender (in his mind, not saying this is right or not). He was then denied any more than 2 mil in fees to buy this defender even though he had sold Robbie Keane (12 mil), Xabi Alonso (30 mil), Sebastien Leto (2 mil), and Alvaro Arbeloa (3.5) since his last purchase in a previous window.
This is a total of 47.5 mil in sales. Why then, did Rafa not have 27.5 mil to spend on a defender? Why did he buy Kyrgiakos for 2 mil if he had all of the money from his sales plus 20 mil? If Xabi Alonso was indeed sold in installments over 2 years, then he should have already received 7.5 mil which puts his sales at 25 mil. This would have still allowed us to buy a 7 mil centreback if it were given to Rafa.
If you consider Xabi Alonso’s sale as money received (rather than total), then Rafa’s net spend is pretty much exactly 120 mil, which would indeed be 20 mil per transfer window. This seems contradictory to me, so I’ll have to do some research and get back to you.
Again, sorry for going mental. Fighting alone can get pretty emotional.
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Retryboy - December 4th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Isaac hunt=spanner that can’t even spell dunce properly let alone have a grown up debate or answer my points.
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Warren Bloggs - December 4th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
Isaac Hunt, i agree Aquaman has done a good job with his ‘debut’ articles but to class Retryboy as a ‘dunse’ (as you put it) is way off the mark. I respect you Isaac and your views and will always have time for you, but we cannott have a ‘go’ at every single person who disagree’s with you, as this is a debate – so like i credit myself as being – therefore you should be open to another person’s view even if it strikes a cord with yours. The only possible exception are ‘Anon’s’ as they are thorougly annoying!
”Donavan Ried – December 4th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
…….. There were Quality Bargain players out there to be had, before the star of last season Rafa Could have had Podolski for £11-£14m and Schweinsteiger on a free.”
I completely agree with this one Donovan, i would love to see the German duo at the club as both are class acts. Schweisteiger (in my opinion) would have been a better option than Kuyt for the right wing, and Podolski as we know can play on the left wing and up-front. Two players that would have gone along way with helping out our squad. I also like Deco as he could have been usefull, but i am not so keen on Luis Figo or Huntelaar.
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kermit - December 4th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
i still actually belive rafa has done okay in spending and in player purchasing , where he has faltered is what he has then done with the players he has bought,
babel is a waste of money and talent
keane deliberatley played out of position to make him look bad and prove a point
but this isnt my primary rfa gripe
my primary rafa gripe is his abilty to read matches, see whats happening and make appropriate changes either via substitution or tactics to change the course of a game before the damage is done. he always procrastinates on key substitutions. it didnt take a rocket scientist to work out something neeeded to be done against city or they would score, and once they had scored it was obvious to my gran that they would score again, he seems to make frustrating decisons on lineups and formations to acccomodate two holiding midfielders even when we desperately need to win, say against debrecen, where winning 4-0 would have helped our cause he plays with two holding midfielders and a left back on the wing(and a very slow left back). same story against everton , who totally bossed that game and were extremely unfortunate not to at least get a draw from it.
we have babel riera kuyt yossi gerrard aquilani torres, at least five of these should be playing in each game
five defesive minded players and five attack minded therefore the balance of defense to attack is even.
raafa s lineup against everton had gerrard and ngog and kuyt as attacking players. i know you will argue johnson at right back is an atttack minded player but primarily he is a defender.
kuyt can t play wide right anymore, he is a striker pure and simple, he s a goal poacher.
even when aquilani is fit i am sure rafa will implore him to play as a deep lying playmaker and hold midfiedl with mascherano instead of allowing him to play his natural game much as he does with lucas
——————————-mascherano——————————
—————–gerrard————————aquilani——————
babel————————-torres————————-yossi.riera
or
——————————–mascherano——————————
——————gerrard ———————–riera——————–
———————————aquilani————————————-
—————————-torres——babel——————————-
chelsea rarely play with two defensive midfielders, its usually either essien or mikel, arsenal only ever with song, man utd play a straight four four two, spurs have palacios, city employ barry and de jong but they aren t doing so shit hot either considering the squad they have, and noticeably de jng has been dropped in favour of ireland in recent games, and you ll say pblah blah inuriesinjuries, nebollix
mebolllix
why hasn t he been playing a system like this with
—————————mascherano———————-
—————lucas————————-gerrard———-
——————————yossi—————————-
————————ngog——-kuyt———————–
and letting lucas have more freedom to get forward and support the front two and to get into the box when we get the ball out wide
esp against pooorer opposition masch can hold the midfield anchor on his own and lets be honest against some teams he could do it blindfold
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kermit - December 4th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
ps i dont think milner and young are any better than kuyt and babel
milner is a good footballer i think young is overated, babel cant be judged as a footballer til he has had a run in the team, and kuyt is played on the right wing for some bizarre reason.
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kermit - December 4th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
i wanted podolski and schweinsteiger two seasons ago but not so much now, those two generally do play well together for germany with each one fitting perfectly into rafa s 4 2 3 1 system.
i also wanted anyukov for right back, russian , euro 2006 good times
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kermit - December 4th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
but there were bargains to be had at the start of this season we could have taken martin petrov from city for five million, we could even now look to klose for eight million , adriano for eight million, there are always bargains to be had
how useful would martin petrov have been over the last month or so while we ve been asking aurelio to carry our left sided threat, answer priceless
there are still offers out there
klose fro bayern has stated more than once how he would like to play for liverpool
hed be cheapish and proven at all levels , adriano same stroy but more risky,
van der vaart screaming to gte out of madrid
these are top players at bargain basement prices
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Warren: I seem to be gathering a legion of my own personal anons. It’s quite flattering, actually.
Donavan: I too agree on the germans. But this does seem to be a bargain that everybody missed then. Same with Van der Vaart. I don’t know why, but I think there’s something going on behind the scenes in both cases. Or it could just be me.
Now then, I’ve done my promised research, so here’s Rafa’s buying and selling per season:
Year……………Bought……………..Sold……………….Net……
…………………………………………………………………………………
04/05…………..39.75………………10.50…………….29.25…
05/06…………..26.29………………12.00…………….14.29…
06/07…………..44.30………………13.83…………….30.47…
07/08…………..43.00………………33.20………………9.80…
08/09…………..39.00………………32.75………………6.25…
09/10…………..40.00………………35.50………………4.50…
Now this I did not expect to see. It’s even worse than I ever imagined! 20 mil plus transfers my ass! We were given more money before the yanks! After reading this I’m just about ready to join ‘The Spirit of Shankly’ as we speak! Preach on, YNWA!
Incidentally, Retryboy, do you see what I mean about the 40 mil? Almost like clockwork.
I dunno why, but for some reason I now get the total net spend at 94.56 mil, even though I’m using the same reference. Stupid calculator. I’ll do my sums again and repost if I get any substantial changes
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Retryboy - December 4th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Thanks warren, Aquaman-Debate that its hindsight at all most liverpool fans knew that the players i listed we let go were worth keeping. Course i have taken the greatest hits lol you picked the 7 most expensive players we have bought including keane and alonso who have left taking up £31m of the £140m squad total at the moment, would have been £171m if they were still here! So i countered your shannanigans and i would do the same again lol like i said before i don’t expect all the transfers to work or every one to be a bargain and think rafa has done well on the in transfers its the players he has let go for next to nothing that would still get in the squad and as i have shown there are plenty that i would pull him up on. Was going to say to you that the figures are since Rafa’s arrival and it would be interesting to see them since the americans and you have provided and no its not pretty reading. Obviously you would expect to pay out a lot more at the start of a project but didn’t expect that sort of drop off in funds. Anyway its friday night over here which is beertime so congratulations on another good article aquaman, enjoyed the debate, have a good evening if it is evening in africa pardon the ignorance if its not and are you english born? Meaning who are you supporting at the world cup?
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anonymous - December 4th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
Aquaman
Absoultely fantastic article spot on i really enjoyed. it shows great passion.
Now can you look at this for me and see how Rafa did in his buys at valencia and how mch they cost you will be surprised.
Because you know what the yanks did a due dilligence on his transfer activity in all his career.
If you look at Shanklys Transfer and did the cost comparison allowing for the relevant inflation what would the dofference be.
Tell me if i’m wrong would you agree that Rafa has signed 4 world class players for a pittance ? and if he had the money he would buy more.
Reina
Mash
Alonso
Torres
And you know apart from injury i would say Agger.
I also think Glen Johnson is world class or will be under Rafa
And i would put my house on aquaman being a world class player for us.
Look at Rafa squad now they must all average 25 the oldest is carra look at Man the manc shite and Chelski and compare it to ours.
This man Rafa knows what he is doing. He has even gone on record to say that he wants to bring through the acamedy local boys.
Look at the low value of the barcelona team who have come through.
Everyone goes on about Robbie Keane but the move. it was to big for him now if Robbie had been signed for 5-6 mil he would still be a liverpool but he was never a 20 mil pound player so rafa had to sell him to recuperate his loss at 29 yrs of age he was a stupid buy by Rick Parry at that price.
As for Retyboy he makes some very good post but on this occasion i cant agree with al of his post.
Donavan has made it clear he does not like Rafa but you know he does make some god points now and again.
I’m all for the youth coming through but at liverpool the expectations are High the youngsters need to be world class.
The squad it needs to be trimmed too many players who should not even pull on that great RED shirt
We have lost out on that many players it is unreal why because of no money but great fans and great history.
We need a massive iconic stadium
We also need massive financial footing otherwise we are going to be behind of others.
But we are the best club in the world
Regards
Pete
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Thanks Retryboy. Its been fun.
I agree as well on Rafa letting players go cheap. Even Arbeloa. But then, when you;re not going to see any of that money again, it does kind of make getting the best deal a little pointless. If I felt that the money was going towards our debt then I’d feel a little better. And I suppose it is, but only on the interest, which is a straight loss.
Anyway, yes it is evening in Africa (I’m currently in Namibia which is 2+ GMT at the moment and 1+ GMT in winter [or summer for you strange Northern Hemisphere types]). Currently 10:32 pm. Unfortunately where I am at the moment could only charitably be called a village. 3 000 people max, and 200 km of dirt road and a border crossing to the nearest pub. Thank God for football.
Enjoy a cold one for me!
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Aquilani4goals - December 4th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
I said it before and I will say again.Rafa has lost the plot.No plan B.alot of fan are losing confidence in the man call rafa.
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Aquilani4goals - December 4th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
I said it before and I will say again.Rafa has lost the plot.No plan B.alot of fans are losing confidence in the man call rafa.
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...samlfc.... - December 4th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Just had to say that i was on here purely for the world cup but i noticed Aquamans first two posts so i thought i’ll pop by
Grreat posts Aquaman real indepth and you talk about both sides of the story…….keep up witht he great posts Aquaman and you should apply for Sports journalism or somemthing on them lines.
On my injury just incase people were wondering. lol . well its not as bad as first thought but i still need to rest but the good news is i can come back properly on this site (as in comment everyday) by next Friday minimum!!
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
A4g, why do you say he has lost the plot? Sweeping statements are pointless without some form of explanation.
In my opinion we have two problems. Defense and Yanks. The former is evidenced by the number of goals we concede (we still score plenty), the latter I only truly realised 20 minutes ago.
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...samlfc.... - December 4th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Just had to say that i was on here purely for the world cup but i noticed Aquamans first two posts so i thought i’ll pop by
Grreat posts Aquaman real indepth and you talk about both sides of the story…….keep up witht he great posts Aquaman and you should apply for Sports journalism or somemthing on them lines.
On my injury just incase people were wondering. lol . well its not as bad as first thought but i still need to rest but the good news is i can come back properly on this site (as in comment everyday) by next Friday minimum!!
(i hate waiting or the moderationt hing so heres a dublicate of the post i done at 9:40)
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Hehe. Thanks …samlfc… Always good to get positive feedback. The real challenge starts now though, as I’ve pretty much exhausted my favorite topic. Now I’ve actually got to do some thinking and planning (cringe). Still, I’ll definitely keep at it.
Good news about the injury. Get well soon. Don’t be a stranger!
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...samlfc.... - December 4th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Sorry but what do you mean don’t be a stranger? lol and you should carry on as i personally think that you,Donavan,Retryboy an kermit are the best at hat you lot do and thats telling us interesting facts about Liverpool and give us excellent opinions.
You could do something like telling us what would be a good transfer and what would be a bad one from stories from the press? there is plenty of options and i think you’ll do fine on whatever one you do!
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Donavan Ried - December 4th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Warren Bloggs – December 4th, 2009 at 8:38 pm …. Here.Here Warren
To many people here get personal, I am afaird that i to have let myself be drawn into it ….. I do how ever believe that you should agrue your points and not resort to insults …. Everyone has their own take on things…. I not to hear them, then why do we come here?…..Come on Isaac be the man we all know you can mate ….. nuff said
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Donavan Ried - December 4th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
kermit – December 4th, 2009 at 8:56 pm ….Yeah remembered when i first sugested these two you can on board immediately …..
Anyukov would be a graet addission …… Good shout Kermit
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Donavan Ried - December 4th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Aquaman – December 4th, 2009 at 9:03 pm ….. Ido believe that you are indeed correct when you say …”I don’t know why, but I think there’s something going on behind the scenes in both cases.”…..
About the endless corrections, Think you should change the name from Aquaman to “Mr Perfection”……LOL …. Well done mate
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Stillontheperch - December 4th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Well researched Aquaman. However…..
Lies, lies and damn statistics. I think you, or anyone else for that matter can spin the details around to suit your pro Rafa stance or otherwise.
Bottom line he’s had the time and the money, we can argue all day about whether hes’s profitable or added value to the squad but when all is said and done we have not looked like winning the league since he came.Last year we looked good second half of the season but in truth the Scum always had another gear if necessary.
He must go at the end of the season.
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Donavan Ried - December 4th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
…samlfc…. – December 4th, 2009 at 9:49 pm Evening sam, glad too see you here again, altough a bit sooner than i thought i would …LOL, no but nice to see you ….
Good Evening Pete … Hope thing a good with you
Stillontheperch – December 4th, 2009 at 10:28 pm …… First off I love that name, it’s a classic …….
Don’t think it was so much that man Utd had another gear, think a lot of club just laid down to them. which was a pity …..
But i do agree you can make the statistics fit any side of the aruement that you are on …..
Love that name lol
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Donavan Ried - December 4th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
logging off people
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...samlfc.... - December 4th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Donavan i’m not offically back as like i said i was only purely on here for the World cup but i found out abuut Aquamans first posts so i thought i’ll pop by…..i’m still pretty much away and i doubt you’ll see my posts until like a weeks time
anyways speak again next friday minimum
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Aquaman - December 4th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Stillontheperch: fair enough.
I know that there’s no way to prove it to you, but I write down the statistics with an open mind first. You’ll often see me say something along the lines of “Let’s see what X says” and then following it up with “Didn’t expect to see that.” Yes statistics can be twisted, but I am genuinely trying to be as objective as I can.
And these statistics are pretty clear. Especially the net spend by year one. I’m not pro-Rafa, I’m pro-reason. I think Rafa has plenty of flaws, but I think he has plenty of strengths as well. I am definitely pro-LFC though, and when things are bad, I feel it is better to highlight the good things rather than the bad. The media are too good for me to possibly muscle into that turf.
If I’m still writing when we’re winning prems and Champ’s leagues again, then you’ll probably hear me as the voice of caution. That’s how I see myself though, as always, you’re welcome to you’re opinion.
Donavan: This time they weren’t corrections. I just can’t help falling into debates/arguments. And when I’m in an argument, I quote real data. Its just how I do it.
Not that I won’t post corrections on my next article. I just can’t help myself sometimes.
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Stillontheperch - December 4th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
You needn’t prove it Aquaman, I’m happy to take your word.
I’ve just had enough of him. He’s a Joyless anorak. I can’t imagine its much fun working for him. I can take not winning everthing as to be fair we are not in the same league as most of our serious rivals financially. My argument is based on gut.
Supporting is all about Faith. And I’ve lost mine for him. The owners are clowns and best rid ASAP, but they don’t pick the team or choose the squad.
Rafa followed closely Milan’s tactics of the late eighties I understand. He’d be better off in Italy.
I’ve liked all you contributions so far. And am glad you don’t seem to be going down the “tonkins blinkered” route.
YNWA
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anonymous - December 5th, 2009 at 12:28 am
Kieron
read an article today about rafa talking about torress well looks like torress wont play at weekend but may play in the cl, so lets not play our best player in the league but lets risk him in a game that means nothing even if we win 10-0 it wont change a damn thing , im not saying start torres against blackburn but just have him on the bnech just incase but nope rafa likes cl over league even if were actually out of the competition once again well done rafa
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anonymous - December 5th, 2009 at 12:32 am
aquaman you are a legend great artical better than reading the tripe the rafa haters on this site constantly shite on about………..fact
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anonymous - December 5th, 2009 at 12:35 am
it’s rafas fault torres is injured for the blackburn game!
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anonymous - December 5th, 2009 at 12:43 am
still on the perch…
how can you say hes had the money?
Rafa has spent what is it, just over 140m on the squad or something like that?
guess what….Real madrid spent 80m on ronaldo, 30m on benzema, and 55m on kaka….
those 3 players cost more than our entire squad.
I could understand you saying that rafa has had the money if he was given that amount, but really…he hasnt.
at the moment, the likes of chelsea and united are spending anything up to 10million on reserve team players who arent even bought for the first team…
how can you say rafa has been given anything in comparison to that?
Im not saying rafa is the best manager, or that his tactics etc are good…but his dealing in the transfer market seems to be pretty good.
And Retry I have to disagree about Heskey- hes utter gash.
Reds Lewis
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anonymous - December 5th, 2009 at 1:51 am
bottom line, forget the money, is that the team is now crap – what true fan has not been ashamed of the way they have played this season? Totally outplayed by a fourth rate blue slime team?
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dibbler - December 5th, 2009 at 3:26 am
omg im back online come on hello all
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dibbler - December 5th, 2009 at 3:53 am
I was watching the fulham match the other night and was not supprised one bit to see my mate murph absolutly running the show for them he was a quality player who dispite what certain idiots in the crowd believed is a model pro in his personal life and professional life he worked unbeliveably hard and cared like the fan he was about our club it was a very strange decision to sell a player who was fans player and players player of the season that year.
the thing i think hampered him at liverpool was he was the usual problem of playing a player out of position and was not anywhere near the player he is on the left or right as he is dictating play in the middle but looking back i ask myself “IS LUCAS A BETTER PLAYER THAN DANNY MURPHY ” and the answer in a big fat noooooooooooooooo im not a player hater and i still think rafa is the man we need but i cant agree with some of the signings and sellings in the market and the worst of the lot was aquilani, its not that i think he is not good enough as im sure he is top quality although i want to see him play first but i find it hard to believe we have signed a un-fit player to fill such an important roll im the team. I said at the beginnig of the season that the season could be over the time he was fit and it looks right i could be right.
Gutted to be honest but anyway thats my rant over
P.s. its good to be back
YNWA.
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 4:00 am
is lucas a better player thna danny murphy , no but he will be.
sayign that i like danny murphy and its obvious how much he loves the club, before every big game for liverpool he comes out in support of us, and i would accept that murphy would have been useful this season but he wouldnt have gotten in the team last season, and he wouldnt have been happy on the bench.
aqnd agree at the moment having murphy and mascherano in the middle would be nice , but murphy left us a ong time ago.
i have huge belief in lucas
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Retryboy - December 5th, 2009 at 5:17 am
As a suggestion aquaman would like a story done from an objective point of view on Rafa’s statements since the end of last year. To me i lost patience actually pre Sunderland when the team got leaked the night before and up till then i was losing patience but still thought the good outweighed the bad as donovan will tell you but the final straw was the ultimate defensive team to a level i never thought i would see. Straw that broke the camels back time but anyway to me every time he has opened his mouth for months it has made me more anti rafa. From quoting Ynwa to particularly what jamie Redknapp said about pulling the wool over fans eyes especially with the alonso gate saga might be past history but for rafa to try and say he was signing barry to play LM and feed keane from there and that was why keane didn’t work out was just purely re-writing history to me. We all know he was trying to replace alonso and wouldn’t have even had the funds to have both just couldn’t say it after the season alonso had and after every fan was screaming alonso was better than barry as he was trying to sort the deal. Anyway don’t know if it would interest you but there is a lot of times he has pushed the blame on the owners. Was he right to do so? Feel you could do a good objective piece on the stuff straight out of the horses mouth aquilani injury is another, his reasons for not qualifying champions league. There have been loads of these really controversial statements from rafa all season and while if anyone breathes near a player there has been a story on it and transfer fantasy football has been going on since the start of the season nothing on what is actually coming out of Rafa’s mouth. Can jim fix it for me to have a go on a wag too lol
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Retryboy - December 5th, 2009 at 5:36 am
Sorry but murphy is a lot better than lucas and kuyt reckon if he didn’t get shanghai’d from us he would have been an england regular you see how fulham take points off the big boys? All danny murphy! would be on his way to the world cup as well no question shame really… on which point aquaman you didn’t say who you were cheering england or south africa?? On donovans point as well still on the perch is an awesome name has so many different meanings. Sam glad to hear you are doing better! Can’t wait for 2moz we never play on saturday any more! Seriously should demolish Blackburn and if we are 2 up by half time we will have our aquilani appearance! Blokes gonna be a star!
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anonymous - December 5th, 2009 at 10:35 am
HELLO KERMIT your nothing but a mummy’s boy mate , for now on i’m gonna call you SPANKY , thats your name now , ok spanky you little bitch stop bending over and eat some cheese
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Aquaman - December 5th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Not a bad idea Retryboy. I’ll add it to my list.
Thanks again to all those who posted positively. Negative comments are also appreciated, but I can’t change the facts.
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 11:54 am
okay anon @ 10 35 what shall i call you gimp or coward????
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 11:55 am
coward fits better, but you are porbably a gimp just looking for a rise out of someone , must be a sad life you lead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 11:56 am
you can call me spanky its prob what you d like to do to me, eh gimp
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 11:56 am
anyways now that gimp is dealt wiht
i m not watching liverppol again while aurelio plays wide left
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
you know its kinda homoerotic coming picking fights with guys in chat rooms, hidden tendencies always surface eh gimp , you prob are living in fear of them a long time, and it spills out as violence and harsh tendencies towards other guys because primary the thing you hate most is that you like men with big bodies, now fuck off and do your pathetic attempts at wanking guys off somewhere else
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
you carry on calling me spanky i ll carry on ignoring it, you ll be happy i ll be happy its all good gimpface
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Donavan Ried - December 5th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Morning Aquaman, Kermit, dibbler, Stillontheperch, (Love that Name…lol) and Retryboy….
Aquaman – December 4th, 2009 at 11:02 pm….. I am poking fun at you mate (But in a nice way)…….. Think I know you enough by now to know that you will try to be objective and give a factual and balanced post
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Donavan Ried - December 5th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Morning Kieron
anonymous (Kieron) – December 5th, 2009 at 12:28 am……..
Rafa doesn’t do himself any favours when he says things like this. WHY WOULD YOU WANT RISK TORRES IN A MEANINGLESS GAME???….. Don’t even want to have him on the bench at Blackburn if he is not right…. would sooner lose the game than have Torres come on for 10 mins, get re-injured and be out for 4 weeks. Have Babel Start up front, and have N’gog as sub……..
And yes I agree, I have been saying it for the last four years now that Rafa prefers the CL over the EPL
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anonymous - December 5th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
this sould make the tabs as the shit they publish is not even wipein ur ass with .this is a man who no wat his on about … post it to the sun some real truth .shit on them
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
who is this anonymous retard
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
i pray ti god that aurelio isn t our left winger today, if he is i m gonna be even more pissed, rafa has literally said aquilani wont play today on the lfc website
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anonymous - December 5th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Ive been looking on this website for a whileand never really commented before but i have a point that needs issued, How come everytime Aquaman says a valid and fair comment or like this posts and article Retryboy has to how can i put this Slag or abuse him for it, if you have not seen retryboy i cant really see anyone who agrees with you here so if you can STOP POSTING SPAM
db10thetruth
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
i really dont enjoy watching liverpool play lately and i know that today will not be much different , seventeen defenders and gerrard and ngog expected to win the game by themselves
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
i m beginning to udnerstand why fans of some clubs tear up their season ticket and throw them at their managers and owners
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dibbler - December 5th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Anon dec 5th 1241
I have read your post 5 times and it still does not make an one bit of sense which may explain why you are not signed in.
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dibbler - December 5th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Right people i will be back on after the game as i have a nice drive to blackburn ahead to do and some singing to do come on red men!!!!!
YNWA.
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Aquaman - December 5th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Be afraid, Retryboy. My anonymous legion is coming for you. Hehe.
For all the arguments that me and Retryboy have, I still respect his opinion as he often raises those difficult points that are not easy to hear. Such things should not be hidden under the carpet and I applaud him for raising them.
I have no problem with people finding faults in my arguments (I am human afterall), or choosing to interpret my findings in another way. The only time that I ever truly have a problem is if people back comments based on downright lies and mistruths. This is my issue with the media.
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anonymous - December 5th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
KERMIT just out of interest. how old are you?
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anonymous - December 5th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
im guna say 12/13
spanky hahahaha class
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redrob - December 5th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
firstly, great post aquaman.
second. i agree with you that rafa is good in the transfure market, that was on of his strong points when he joined liverpool.
what i find most fustrating is that although we have one of the best first teams when fit in the country and europe we are thin on the bench. so in the last year we have spent money on good young players, i believe that rafa is building a team for the future.
i have read a lot of post about peoples oppinions on transfure targets, we have sold/bought ,and tactics and formations.
what i would like to know is your opinion on this season. do people think that we can still mount a challenge for the title?…..i do.
we are 13 points from chelsea with them and arsenal still to come to anfield and still to play united, with them all looking towards the champs league. torres and aquilani almost fit arsenal next weekend. if we go on a run, stay undefeated from now on. 13 points can soon come down to 2 or 3.
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Donavan Ried - December 5th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
dibbler – December 5th, 2009 at 3:53 am
I can attest to the fact that dibbler as always been pro Rafa (By the way nice to have you back mate) We have had our moments in the past, but he as always conducted his self with respect for others ….. To hear him say…. “I was watching the fulham match the other night and was not supprised one bit to see my mate murph absolutly running the show for them he was a quality player who dispite what certain idiots in the crowd believed is a model pro in his personal life and professional life he worked unbeliveably hard and cared like the fan he was about our club it was a very strange decision to sell a player who was fans player and players player of the season that year.” ….
I was absolutely gutted when Danny Murphy was sold …. At the time I believe that he was playing his best football ever for us and was a better player than Gerrard at that time …… I believe, and said it here that he was better than Alonso ….. Alonso’s passing was slightly better than Murphy’s But Danny offered more going forward, more goals and better tackling and a love and desire to play for the fans and the shirt.
But there is something that the Supporters tend to forget, at the time Rafa arrived at the club Steve Gerrard accused Rafa off trying to force him out of the club …..
Danny Murphy should never have been sold …. Just like Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher, Danny Murphy should have been an untouchable, much like Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes Man Utd
And maybe Lucas will be come better than Danny Murphy, but is he now????……Than answer is” No”…..
Dibbler goes on to say …….” but i find it hard to believe we have signed a un-fit player to fill such an important roll im the team” …… This is something that I have been saying since it first became clear that we would sign Aquilani ……
You can say that Rafa is a bit like Marmite. You either love it or hate it …… But too many of his decisions a questionable …..
Afternoon Reds Lewis…….
Not every club can and will pay vastly over inflated prices for players…. £56m for Kaka is ok (Chelsea wanted to pay £72m) as is £30 for Benzema … But £80m for Ronaldo is excessive for any player…. Chelsea and Roman A started this, Man City are continuing it. …….
Thank god that there are Managers like Wenger who refuses to pay these over inflated sums….
Wenger was offer a transfer kitty of £70m you did not see Arsenal making bids for £50m pound strikers did you yet every year they are there about in the Premier League and Champions League ……
You don’t have to always spend big to buy “quality” you only need to spend wisely……
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
anonymous piss off and annoy someone else
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
you are about of as much interest to me as a three day old turd, you come here look to antagonise people with your bullshit and i really dont have any interest in it, i here to talk football, you arent end of , we have nothing more to say to each other really do we?????
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
i think its time for transfer and salry caps to make football less about financial might and more about managerial skill
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Donavan Ried - December 5th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
kermit – December 5th, 2009 at 1:02 pm …….”who is this anonymous retard”….
Don’t you recognize him kermit???? ……
It’s the one how likes my @$$, the one that watches me …You Know…… “Kermit take your head out of Donavan’s @$$”……
The one that don’t know what a woman is….. You know…. The no mark, the one with no knowledge of football so he makes up for that lack of knowledge by insulting people instead…. Yes that one
Just ignore Kermit mate
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
pffft i havent paid much attention to him really , he has just started trying to rile me this morning, obviously not getting enough man on man attention lately and i m fresh meat apparently , they have a name for guys like him in prison, i believe its bull queers
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Retryboy - December 5th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Afternoon all- along with donovan don’t respond to your anonymous legions comments aquaman only ones i bother with are the people that i am sure put their names on all their posts. As aquaman once stated himself kermit nobody on here is going to change their opinion of you based on what an anon says so don’t give them the attention they crave wastes time and ruins the discussion. Think some people miss the point of a good article you aren’t trying to convince everyone your point of view is right you are trying to open a topic of discussion, give people some facts they haven’t had and offer your opinions for people to second or counter and if people are open minded they will realise things that they didn’t see before so i can argue against it and still see that it is a good article. Realise i have just contradicted myself and answered an anon but hey ho lol
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anonymous - December 5th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Aquaman, your facts and fiqures are useful. However we have lost the point totally, Rafas succeses Total 1 excllent buy over the 5 year reign (Torres) When talking about income and expenditure should we not include income from sponsership, gate sales shop sales, TV rights ect which also provide income to allow purchases of players.
The downside high wage s interest on borrowings, Running the academy, Which go either way being a profit/ loss.
I would also question his manmanagement skills, the inability to retain possible good prospects, his quest for power, use of favourites, this element highlights his mismanagement, not helped by his arrogance, failure to admit it when screws up, its always the player that fail him when in fact it is choice as to how they approach games and his choice to play just about every player out of position.
Cheers scousernz
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Retryboy - December 5th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Redrob… Think we could get back into it we have to get mascherano, gerrard and aquilani together in the middle, benayoun as well in the team then we have creativity personally would rather have gerrard back in the middle and aquilani behind torres. Gives us real physical strength in midfield. We have the squad and chelsea have plenty of big games left against us and the other big boys its winning those big games starting at arsenal can change everything. Chelsea are going to lose essien, Drogba, Kalou in january they are gonna drop points only thing is they are gonna spend a lot in january too because of the ban think its well out of order they can do that. Rafa needs to let the attacking players off the leash, put out more attacking teams. We have had our injury crisis already chelsea and united will have one at some stage too.
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
retry i m not overly worried about peoples opinions of me
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
we need ot be somewhat thankful today, riera is playing wide left yossi on the right kuty and gerrard up front, we have four attack minded players, which has been more than in recent weeks,
i feel much more confident of our chances of beating blackburn with this lineup than with aurelio wide left
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Stillontheperch - December 5th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Anyway their off and running
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kermit - December 5th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
we ll win 2-0
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anonymous - December 5th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
even with torres in that is still lot of problem ,simply something need to be changed as soon as possible ,otherwise playing in champion league next year will be only dream
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anonymous - December 6th, 2009 at 12:06 am
This is totally of the point, but what to ye think of kevin pince boateng? He only cost pompy 4m and is doing very well for them and scaring teams everytime he gets the ball.
BILLYTHEKID
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kermit - December 6th, 2009 at 12:22 am
if today was taken as evidence of how the league is, man city will push for the title this year and we will be lucky to qualify for the europa league.
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kermit - December 6th, 2009 at 12:29 am
we were pooor pretty much all ver the field , no impetus from midfield and much as i have been praising lucas ove rthe last few weeks , i am almost at the point of conceding how wrong i am, he is not playing with the desire and heraqt i expect from a liverpool midfielder, in fact take johsnon andgerrard out of yesterdays line up and we are a very very ordinary team, i would say bottom half of the league team
i m selling everyone except carra agger reina johnson gerrard and torres, those are the only playersi would keep from yesterdays team.i mselling yossi, babel el zhar lucas kuyt riera ngog, insua did okay, i might keep him but he is mediocre at best so no i m sellling him also, and i am buying some players with drive and pace . this season is fucked anyway. might as well have a huge clearout in january of substabndard players.
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kermit - December 6th, 2009 at 12:30 am
needless to say i am very disappointed with out performance , esp with the tempo set from midfield, we need players who loook like they want to win the game, too many passenegers for me
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anonymous - December 6th, 2009 at 12:43 am
Goor article here Aquaman. I agree that Rafa did a descent job at the transfer market but it comes to no use if you can not get the best out of your players. In my opinion if he has worked with soo many players at least should be able to build a strong enough suqad to put up a fight against ManUtd nd Chelsea. I know he has done a great job bringing on the likes of Torres, Aqulini, Babel, Johnson and many more quality players but its no use if you cant get the best out of players that a manager choose to buy. Sometimes i wonder what the future liverpool team is going to look like with the likes of Nemeth, pacheo and others but we will only find that out if they get a chance to play at the first team and God help us on staying amongst the top 4 coz right now the other teams are getting stronger and we are getting weaker.
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kermit - December 6th, 2009 at 12:57 am
yeah city esp get stringwer ands the title looks a more distant possibilty with every passsing match, it really is time for a chnage i think, move rafa into the technical director of football role if he wants, if not out wiht him, hes done what he can with us
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kermit - December 6th, 2009 at 12:57 am
stronger, i can t type
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anonymous - December 7th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Hey, Aquaman. Great article,and took the words out of my mouth. I’ve been arguing this against the anti-Benitez brigade (who, funnily, went surprisingly quiet last season) for a number of years. I do, however, think you need to revise your figures for this season slightly:
i) The Johnson deal cost approximately £9-10m due to money from the Crouch transfer being waived. I’m not sure whether you factored Crouch’s transfer fee into the 08/09 sold figure. If you have, please disregard.
ii) Roma released the figures behind the Aquilani deal a couple of months ago. Here’s how the transfer breaks down:
* €5m upfront
* €3m by 4th January 2010
* €7m by June 30th 2010
* €5m by June 30th 2011.
Base transfer fee = €20m/£18m
Further Add ons include:
* €300k for every year Liverpool qualify for the CL from 2010/11 to 2014/15.
* €250k every time the player reaches 35 appearances; 70 appearances; 105 appeances and then 140 appearances.
* €1m the first time Liverpool either wins the Premier League or Champions League by 30 June 2014.
* 5% of any future transfer fee paid to Roma.
So, by next summer’s transfer window, the Aquilani deal will only have cost us £15m, and our gross spend this season (deducting the Crouch fee) is closer to £16.5m.
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Aquaman - December 9th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Useful figure, anon. Thanks. I did include Crouch’s sale in the 08/09 figure (my source says he was sold for a total fee of 11 mil).
In truth my (usually very detailed) source hasn’t been updated for this season so I couldn’t include any of the smaller buys and sales that always go on out of the media spotlight.
Thanks again for the figures. I will make a note of them for future use.
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